More apeaceful Protesting in Baltimore

57Brave said:
We are already spending $$$$ on top of $$$. In incarceration alone !

We are preparing to equip police with body cams. Well and good
BUT, why not invest that money in day care for working families. Or, apprentice programs ---
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What's your solution to reducing the incarceration rate? Please don't let it be this Sturgian 'There are too many laws!' 'Drugs should be legal' spiel.

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See, I'd rather the government not try to run a nationwide day care system but instead offer tax incentives to companies that support working-class families (either by opening their own, in office, or helping their employees get their children into one).

Apprentice programs? You'd have to expound.
 
57Brave said:
Your post indicated you see free public housing and lower class life as a day at the beach.
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I'm not sure which is a more grievous offense in 2015; asking how members of the welfare state are disadvantaged, or treating members of the welfare state as their own sub-class begging to be subjected to experimental policies.
 
I think to attack the incarceration rate we must begin at birth.
I think we attack the incarceration rates by rethinking our agreements that sent our industry and blue collar way of life to the 3rd world.
I think we attack the incarceration rate by offering people an honest opportunity to live for something

Your suggestion of nationwide day care is a way. We agree that there is a need. ??? Implementing would follow like left follows right

I used apprentice programs as an example of getting peole trained and walking forward. When I was a kid, unions had strict apprentice programs.
We lost the unions , for a thousand reasons. But, in this case we threw out the baby with the bath water
 
Hawk said:
I'm not sure which is a more grievous offense in 2015; asking how members of the welfare state are disadvantaged, or treating members of the welfare state as their own sub-class begging to be subjected to experimental policies.
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Looking down my nose was I ? :)

If there is anything as obvious as the nose on your face, bootstrap pulling makes middle class whites feel ike "my brother did why can't they" but as a social policy --- it sucks. Because someones brother holds a pair of fours and the peole we are talking about the best they can do with their hand is bluff.

Granted a pair a fours ain't much. But, better than a 2,7,J,5 and K all in different suits
 
57Brave said:
Looking down my nose was I ? :)

If there is anything as obvious as the nose on your face, bootstrap pulling makes middle class whites feel ike "my brother did why can't they" but as a social policy --- it sucks
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Treating the proletariat (is this language that resounds?) as a group that is crave for your social meddling and interpretation of equality seems a very disingenuous position from which to operate.

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It's not a social policy, it's social theory -- and it's part of what makes America so great.
 
Great like Baltimore - Detroit or East LA ?
Harlan County Kentucky or Gadsden County Florida ??

This is a problem that has to be dealt with. Throwing blame at those at the bottom will not fix the problem. Let me rephrase, Has not fixed the problem.
That is what I read you writing

And let's be clear, this problem effects us all. Something about high tides and boats

how does that go?
"we the people in order to form a more perfect union..."
meddling huh ?

Isn't it implied that perfection is the goal? and if our union is not yet perfect isn't it our charge as citizens to keep trying ?

union ---- what an interesting word
 
57Brave said:
Great like Baltimore - Detroit or East LA ?

This is a problem that has to be dealt with. Throwing blame at those at the bottom will not fix the problem. Let me rephrase, Has not fixed the problem.
That is what I read you writing

And let's be clear, this problem effects us all. Something about high tides and boats
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No, great like Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco, Seattle, New York City, Philadelphia, Boston, Denver, etc., et al.

Using derisive language like 'problem' when describing those individuals in this country who find themselves struggling is the problem. No matter the reason.

Baltimore/Detroit/East LA aren't pockets of despair and disrepute that must be treated with your kind of British imperialist Heart of Darkness perception of life in America.

Treating Americans, not matter who they are or how much money they have, as though they need government reform is one hell of a scary proposition to me.
 
57Brave said:
I think we attack the incarceration rates by rethinking our agreements that sent our industry and blue collar way of life to the 3rd world.
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Agreed 100%. But, the wealthy of the country will never allow this to change. They run the show.
 
Hawk said:
No, great like Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco, Seattle, New York City, Philadelphia, Boston, Denver, etc., et al.

Using derisive language like 'problem' when describing those individuals in this country who find themselves struggling is the problem. No matter the reason.

Baltimore/Detroit/East LA aren't pockets of despair and disrepute that must be treated with your kind of British imperialist Heart of Darkness perception of life in America.

Treating Americans, not matter who they are or how much money they have, as though they need government reform is one hell of a scary proposition to me.
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I just came back from BMore-DC area and in the suburbs surrounding BMore, there were no riots, little low income housing lots of hi-tech jobs and a really neat mass transit system.

I asked for your ideas and all you did was infer I was a Marxist and say poor people oughtta get offa your lawn.

There is another. Mass Transit. Add it to welfare and union .
 
57Brave said:
say poor people oughtta get offa your lawn.
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Please don't confuse your own bigoted belief system with my own.

"Come on, let's 'fix' the poor. They are broken. Poor them."

*Looks down nose*

"Here, have a few dollars. Live a better life. In fact, let me tell you how to live. Because I have money and morals. I know."

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You've come in this thread and advocated for Scandinavian social democracy, government mandated class reform, social perfection ... there's not really much that I needed to infer.
 
Because they work.

I also advocate filling your tires with air when they run low instead of blaming the tires for being flat
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The above quotes are really not my quotes --- are they? but an argument you seem to be having with yourself.
Still haven't seen your ideas on Baltimore . Why it happened and how we could avoid it happening again. Like in say, Atlanta,Charlotte etc etc etc
You know, those great American cities.
 
thethe said:
Agreed 100%. But, the wealthy of the country will never allow this to change. They run the show.
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would you support this -meaning would you vote for legislators that would back Sen Sanders,Rep Grayson and Rep Sherman ???

The bill, titled the “Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act,” will also be introduced in the House by Representatives Brad Sherman and Alan Grayson. If passed, it would require regulators at the Financial Stability Oversight Council to come up with a list of too-big-to-fail institutions whose failure would threaten the economy. One year later, those banks would be broken up by the secretary of the Treasury.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/206569/bernie-sanderss-bill-would-break-big-banks
 
57Brave said:
would you support this -meaning would you vote for legislators that would back Sen Sanders,Rep Grayson and Rep Sherman ???

The bill, titled the “Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act,” will also be introduced in the House by Representatives Brad Sherman and Alan Grayson. If passed, it would require regulators at the Financial Stability Oversight Council to come up with a list of too-big-to-fail institutions whose failure would threaten the economy. One year later, those banks would be broken up by the secretary of the Treasury.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/206569/bernie-sanderss-bill-would-break-big-banks
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I'm all for downsizing companies and providing large incentives to employ Americans in America.

I wouldn't vote for a candidate based on one policy but that would be a huge swing in their favor for my vote.
 
57Brave said:
Because they work.

I also advocate filling your tires with air when they run low instead of blaming the tires for being flat
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The above quotes are really not my quotes --- are they? but an argument you seem to be having with yourself.
Still haven't seen your ideas on Baltimore . Why it happened and how we could avoid it happening again. Like in say, Atlanta,Charlotte etc etc etc
You know, those great American cities.
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Do they? Have you ever been to 'democratic' socialist nation? Do you realize how exclusive they are?

We won't even get into the nonexistence of financial liberty afforded the citizenry.

I doubt that bothers you, personal freedom seems but a roadblock in your worldview.

"Reform, reform, reform" -- didn't Hitler say that?

How about France? Spain? Italy? Portugal? Belgium (gotta love that 50% tax!)? You do realize that those nations were forced to accept austerity as a means of escaping out of control socialist policies?

Sounds a little conservative.

Those are countries much smaller than the United States, by the way.

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A suggestion: Instead of simply parroting what Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren have to say (which, let's face it, is blatant pandering) -- why not engage in your own pursuit of a legitimate political theory which would work here in the United States given the preexistence of capitalism and the foundation upon which that ideology is well-imbued in hearts/minds of Americans.
 
You've scolded enough for one day but,
Still no ideas?

Parroting the 2 Senators --- they seem to be driving the discussion on income inequality which if I take you right is the way it should be.
"... a more perfect union ... "

there is that word again, union.
You know where people band together to make things a little easier on their neighbor. Good ol' fashioned Rock Ribbed Prairie neighborlyness -
yeah.

Unless it's messy --- right?
Like that guy with the messy poker hand -- gotta bluff. Gotta learn to bluff
 
Hawk said:
Look, we all know what your solution is: throw more money (not yours, clearly) at it.

I'm looking for a different perspective here. One that actually A) might work and B) hasn't proven itself to be an utter socioeconomic catastrophe.
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Baltimore has received 1.8 billion in stimulus money within the past 5 years. Looks like throwing money at Baltimore helped it.
 
First off, what projects were that $1.8 Bil spent on. Before you throw the number out perhaps a little context ...
Those numbers are public record - why not produce them

Secondly
Never suggested throwing money at Baltimore.

Hawk said that was my solution. Not me.

Do I get to say Hawk solution is to ... (however I want to paint him)
Instead of offering any ideas y'all make up **** I say.

Woulda thought gold put an end to that stuff last week ---
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So here we go again - a group with no ideas turns this personal.
Like the wise lady said " Do you know when you've won? If they can't win on the policy they argue the politics. If they can't win the politics they make it personal"

I'm not even trying to win an argument only trying to have a conversation on the causes of the riots and how we move forward
 
57Brave said:
So here we go again - a group with no ideas turns this personal.
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Wait a second. I take a few swings, assail your positions, and you suddenly get your feelings hurt and treat my comments as some sort of a personal attack?

Please. If I wanted to take things to that level you would know it.
 
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