Do fans actually like small ball?

chop2chip

chop2chip

Well-known member
A month into the season, the Braves rank 25th among Major League Baseball’s 30 teams in attendance per home game, according to figures compiled by baseball-reference.com.

Through 16 games at Turner Field, the Braves have drawn an average of 22,321 fans per game.

One National League team — the Miami Marlins — and four American League teams have averaged fewer fans per home game than the Braves so far this season.
 
They are all still made that Heyward was traded.

But seriously, the demographics of Atlanta was not going to respond well to trading two recognizable and likeable black players. It is what it is.

I think once they are a year removed from the offseason or the Braves somehow find themselves in a WC race that the fans will show up.
 
Also, haven't the Braves hit more homeruns than last year at this point? I don't believe it has anything to do with small ball.
 
thethe said:
Also, haven't the Braves hit more homeruns than last year at this point? I don't believe it has anything to do with small ball.
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I think it has more to do with the general narrative that the Braves were supposed to be one of the worst teams in baseball coupled with the fact that Georgia sports fans are the worst.

I just threw the title out there to be an ass.
 
thethe said:
They are all still made that Heyward was traded.

But seriously, the demographics of Atlanta was not going to respond well to trading two recognizable and likeable black players. It is what it is.
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Have you ever been to a Braves game? It's mostly white.
 
chop2chip said:
A month into the season, the Braves rank 25th among Major League Baseball’s 30 teams in attendance per home game, according to figures compiled by baseball-reference.com.

Through 16 games at Turner Field, the Braves have drawn an average of 22,321 fans per game.

One National League team — the Miami Marlins — and four American League teams have averaged fewer fans per home game than the Braves so far this season.
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I don't think small ball is the issue. They're actually playing with a pretty balanced offense. It's unpopular trades and a perception that they aren't going to be competitive (or might not even try to be competitive), along with a recent stretch of disappointing performances that is hurting attendance.

Trading popular players is probably the one biggest deterrent to attendance. Two things will possibly lead to a turn around....competitive performance and familiarity with new players that fans can relate to/pull for.
 
Research shows that there are only two significant factors (after controlling for population, location, etc.) that influence attendance. It's winning and the honeymoon effect when teams get a new ballpark.

I know it has nothing do with the team not hitting homeruns.
 
I think the front office has been clear about rebuilding in 2015, using words like palatable and saying that they are really pointing to 2017. And fans have responded to that message.

If the front office had taken a somewhat different marketing approach, with emphasis on reloading rather than rebuilding, and keeping one of Gattis, Upton and Heyward, and putting out rhetoric about intending to compete for the playoffs rather than just being palatable, then I suspect the impact on attendance would not have been as large. It would still be down, but not as much.

I think attendance this year will affect payroll next year.
 
nsacpi said:
I think the front office has been clear about rebuilding in 2015, using words like palatable and saying that they are really pointing to 2017. And fans have responded to that message.

If the front office had taken a somewhat different marketing approach, with emphasis on reloading rather than rebuilding, and keeping one of Gattis, Upton and Heyward, and putting out rhetoric about intending to compete for the playoffs rather than just being palatable, then I suspect the impact on attendance would not have been as large. It would still be down, but not as much.

I think attendance this year will affect payroll next year.
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I don't think a drop in payroll will hurt the Braves actually since they have so many players who are young and not making a lot of money.
 
thethe said:
Not when I went 6 years ago. And not what I see when I watch the games.
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Unless you went on Jackie Robinson Day or to the Civil Rights Game your observations don't match what I've seen in around 20 games in person and probably 3,000 viewed on TV over the last 10 years. 90% white would be a conservative estimate based on what I've seen.
 
DirkPiggler said:
Unless you went on Jackie Robinson Day or to the Civil Rights Game your observations don't match what I've seen in around 20 games in person and probably 3,000 viewed on TV over the last 10 years. 90% white would be a conservative estimate based on what I've seen.
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well then hopefully the move to Cobb will earn the team more money.
 
It's tough to get people to come out to see Jonny Gomes.

Nothing against Jonny Gomes... but he isn't an exciting player who we can look forward to for years to come.

Most of our lineup is stop gaps and fill ins.
 
nsacpi said:
I think the front office has been clear about rebuilding in 2015, using words like palatable and saying that they are really pointing to 2017. And fans have responded to that message.

If the front office had taken a somewhat different marketing approach, with emphasis on reloading rather than rebuilding, and keeping one of Gattis, Upton and Heyward, and putting out rhetoric about intending to compete for the playoffs rather than just being palatable, then I suspect the impact on attendance would not have been as large. It would still be down, but not as much.

I think attendance this year will affect payroll next year.
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NSACPI, that's similar to what I was saying above, but I hope you are wrong about the payroll.
 
chop2chip said:
A month into the season, the Braves rank 25th among Major League Baseball’s 30 teams in attendance per home game, according to figures compiled by baseball-reference.com.

Through 16 games at Turner Field, the Braves have drawn an average of 22,321 fans per game.

One National League team — the Miami Marlins — and four American League teams have averaged fewer fans per home game than the Braves so far this season.
Click to expand...

Too many variables have changed at once with the 2015 Braves to get an accurate read on how much "offensive style" has played into an attendance decline. I suspect it's negligible. Biggest factors on attendance decline in my subjective view are (1) several marketable players were traded, (2) the team is not viewed as a contender, (3) the forthcoming move to Cobb County.

We'll see a decline in gate receipts, concessions, and merchandising this year. But some portion of those declines will be offset by increased revenues from the re-worked TV deal announced last year. I still expect our payroll capacity to be around $120m next year.
 
I would be shocked if the Braves didn't fully anticipate an attendance slide in 2015/16 as a direct result of the on-field personnel changes they made this past offseason.

I don't think attendance will have any bearing whatsoever (provided that it doesn't drop to historical league-wide lows) on payroll figures until 2017, frankly. Even then, the team probably won't settle on a happy number until 2020.
 
My expectation is payroll will be in the 90-95M range next year. Then they'll pump it up to the 120-130 range in 2017.

We only have commitments for 72M next year, so that would still leave room for one or two significant acquisitions.
 
The low attendance this year might also reflect a feeling of being mislead or short-changed. I believe that John Hart declared payroll would be north of 100M and south of 120M this year in a conference call with season ticket holders, but we started the season at about 96M and that includes money being paid to Uggla and Quentin. I suppose we could add to payroll over the course of the season and get to 100M, but I think a fair reading of Hart's words might lead to the conclusion that he mislead season ticket holders.
 
Hawk said:
I don't think attendance will have any bearing whatsoever (provided that it doesn't drop to historical league-wide lows) on payroll figures until 2017, frankly.
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Generally agree with this. I don't think attendance related revenues will drop off a cliff. More like a 10-15% decline.

Hart told season ticket holders last Fall that our 2015 payroll would be between $100m and $120m depending on how the offseason played out. We were projected at $110m before the Kimbrel trade and are now around $100m.

The front office may well come in at a lower payroll number next year than our true capacity just due to the low cost of our current talent pool. But I don't expect Liberty to step in and reduce our payroll for business reasons. It's in their interest to invest in the product as we embark on the new stadium.
 
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