yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
wooo elections to the highest bidder!
2016 Presidential Primaries [ SUPER TUESDAY | 3-1-'16]
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
wooo elections to the highest bidder!
Bush on immigration:
"There are means by which we can control our border better than we have. And there should be penalties for breaking the law," he added. "But the way I look at this -- and I'm going to say this, and it'll be on tape and so be it. The way I look at this is someone who comes to our country because they couldn’t come legally, they come to our country because their families -- the dad who loved their children -- was worried that their children didn’t have food on the table. And they wanted to make sure their family was intact, and they crossed the border because they had no other means to work to be able to provide for their family. Yes, they broke the law, but it’s not a felony. It’s an act of love. It’s an act of commitment to your family. I honestly think that that is a different kind of crime that there should be a price paid, but it shouldn’t rile people up that people are actually coming to this country to provide for their families."
I'd like to see a Democrat take that position.
Where have you been for the past two decades?
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
not voting for a large majority of it.
i know it's always happened, but that doesn't mean it should continue. i
I agree, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's not a driving force in modern politics. Obama raised $750MM in 2008.
Hillary has supposedly raised $90MM this year.
Money speaks to the viability of a candidate. Yeah, an uncomfortable amount of it comes from wealthy donors like Adelson/Koch or Soros/Simons. But a significant amount also comes from grassroots support.
You would be surprised how many people willingly donate $15-25 a month to these campaigns.
That's really my only commentary on the issue because I think we're two terms overdue on a campaign finance reform push from the White House.
People love to bitch about Citizens United and then turn around and watch their candidates reap the fiscal benefits.
Where have you been? Obama's own immigration speech after the executive order just hit the nail about 20 times how nearly all of these immigrants hiding here in the shadows came to this country to find a better life for them and their families, how a lot of them love this country and want to be good productive citizens, etc.
If that doesn't speak to what you bolded, then we're not speaking the same language.
sturg33
I
My guess is the more candidates there are, the more Rand Paul benefits. I feel like he has his "base" no matter what - and the more candidates that enter just dillutes the others.
Easily trumps? Are you crazy? Hillary Clinton, former Secretary of State and First Lady of the Husband who had the highest approval rating leaving office in history, and Julian Castro that gave the keynote address at the DNC a few years ago, current cabinet member of the Obama admin easily loses to two state governors? New Mexico of all places? If Bill Richardson or Gary Johnson couldn't get much traction with their New Mexico roots, I'd hardly think Susana Martinez is the mover you think she is. Picking an unknown like Martinez would be worse politically than McCain picking Palin. I'm sure Martinez is probably 5x smarter than Palin, but Jeb would piss off so much of the base it'd be hilarious.
Not to mention if and once Jeb becomes the nominee,he's going to have the shadow of his brother's bad reputation leaving office 8 years ago, the fact that the fringe of his party is going to pressure him to be against immigration which is going to lead him into a flip flop decision. I mean look at what the debates of 2012 did to Romney by the time he reached the General. Gingrich, Santorum, Perry all got their best blows in to hurt Romney's character and all Team Obama had to do was build on that.
The fact of the matter is, Bush in 2004 got 45% of the hispanic vote. THat's why he beat Kerry for the most part, but demographics have shifted so much and Republicans have alienated hispanics more than you admit during Obama's term that it'll be more than a miracle if they get close to 30% of the hispanic vote.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Yeah, I didn't get this, either. If anything, the Pubs' tunes have never been what Jeb just said. I think we're seeing that party recognizing they can't be the way they were because it costs them a ton of votes. they're the ones changing their tunes.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
which is why jeb said what he said.
I don't see how Rand has the base. Because honestly the Republicans don't even know what the base is themselves. Rand is about to go on the Anti-Patriot Act mode which I support, but if he starts speaking on foreign policy like his dad there's no way he gets the base. There's too much craving for blood and war in his party than there is for non-intervention and reduction of the military industrial complex.
I know why he said what he said, but let's not act like Jeb is a pioneer here. I mean even George W was willing to go through with some amnesty. It's just the GOP track record the last half decade on hispanics and immigration have not been so pleasant. Jeb standing out like this may help him with a few independents, but it's not going to help him take votes away on the left from Hillary, and it's really going to make the base pissed.
Well, I specifically meant Democrats running for President since you alluded to immigration being a weakness for Republicans in 2016.
I liked Obama's immigration speech, but Bush was using that kind of rhetoric way back when it was akin to drinking poison.
Even if morons like Huckabee come out with strong anti-immigration positions, that actually only serves to highlight how moderate Bush is on the issue and allows him to tout his own Hispanic connections.
That hurts a candidate like Hillary, who has been slow to come around on immigration and has only spoken about it in terms of reform ... even then with this kind of sterility.
sturg33
I
Rand's got a large chunk of the libertarian leaning part of the base (deservedly or not)... He will capture many of Ron's supporters - and you may recall Ron was consistently pulling in over 10% of the vote in every state. Rand will get most of those, plus MANY more republicans that Ron never touched. I think Rand will have a very consistent primary performance - and the more candidates that enter the field, the stronger Rand's numbers become.
Rand has already pivoted to neocon foreign policy - so no worries there
Well perhaps you haven't seen how aggressive Hillary has been on immigration the last week or so. She's paying attention.
And what you say Huckabee does is exactly the purpose Sanders fills for Hillary. He can be out there and make Hillary's liberal positions seem moderate compared to Sanders.
The fact is Hillary ran an awful campaign with terrible advisors (she's nearly scrapped that awful team since then) in 2008. She can run and be more liberal now that the demographics have shifted in the voting electorate. She doesn't need all white voters to win anymore, so she can take much more progressive stances now like the First Lady Hillary and not seem like a fringe candidate.
Jeb said what he said because he has a Mexican wife and children of mixed descent.
I think by the time we get to Iowa the field will drop to about 4-5 players with the GOP keeping 3-4 outsiders on the debate stages just to show some type of parity.
Rand is interesting, but don't think his sudden pivot to neocon foreign policy will help him too much. The hawks on the right will make it standout and try and connect him with his dad's foreign policy which will scare a lot of the base. Especially when we have to keep hearing all the FBI, CIA, NSA directors warn of us lone wolf attacks (coincidentally right as the Patriot Act is set to expire hehe).
She's going to have to be, because until she chooses her token Hispanic running mate she has zero credibility when it comes to Immigration. I mean none.
The national opinion on immigration is fairly centrist, so I don't see the advantage of the Democrats pushing further left on the issue in any way. The Republicans have more to gain there than the Democrats do.
Thus making him an outsider of the Republican Primary base. I still think he'll win the nomination, but I don't think his party will be as strongly behind him because he's not as much of a YES man like Romney was.
57Brave
Well-known member
Knowing what we know in 2015 -- Jeb would still invade Iraq.
Really ?
Jeb is a non starter -- he will be linked to a) Iraq b)Afghanistan c) the financial collapse. And exhibits no skills to talk his way around those obvious road blocks
Rusty - no, just out of his league. He is not a national politician. Rusty politicians dont make the mistakes he's made in the past week. Incompetent politicians do.
He is not a state level politician anymore
Hawk, have you heard the excuses for why he answered that question the way he did ?? I smell Rick Perry Part Deux
Really ?
Jeb is a non starter -- he will be linked to a) Iraq b)Afghanistan c) the financial collapse. And exhibits no skills to talk his way around those obvious road blocks
Rusty - no, just out of his league. He is not a national politician. Rusty politicians dont make the mistakes he's made in the past week. Incompetent politicians do.
He is not a state level politician anymore
Hawk, have you heard the excuses for why he answered that question the way he did ?? I smell Rick Perry Part Deux