Further, Miguel Cabrera accumulated a 22.2 WAR in his first 6 seasons. Are you going to try and say that Heyward was a comparable player over the same span?
Sherman: Braves offered Heyward 80M after 2013
- Thread starter chop2chip
- Start date
Further, Miguel Cabrera accumulated a 22.2 WAR in his first 6 seasons. Are you going to try and say that Heyward was a comparable player over the same span?
sturg33
I
Sure. But it was a complete failure of the front office not to at least have a conversation with Heyward before trading him. That shouldn't be hard to admit. That makes me question their competency.
The only reason I cans see why they wouldn't is because they actually didn't want him long-term - which would make me question their talent evaluation abilities.
How do we know how the previous conversations went? ITs very possible that based on historical precedence that they felt it was an exercise in futility to engage in any additional ones. If the delta between the two deals was not able to be overcome then I see it could make sense. What I think they could have done is have a deal in place and go to Heyward or his representatives and say we are about to make this deal...do you want to discuss an extension.
However, I would absolutely not question the talent evaluation skills of this front office in light of how these deals have gone thus far. It could change but so far the deals have all been excellent.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Yup.....that's what I said.......Heyward > MCab.
Heyward has been good, very good......one of the better all around players in the league but if you can't see that, it's not really my issue. Keep holding out hope that every prospect turns into Mike Trout or MCab, I guess. Let me know how that works out for you.
I never said that you said that but the implications of your post saying Heyward has lived up to the potential of fWAR does indicate that you believe fWAR to be an incredible measure of a players abilities.
I just took it a step further and compared that number to someone else who has accumulated that and wondered if you thought they were similiar. If you don't then I question whether or not you truly believe in how valuable fWAR is. Based on your response it seems to me that you are only using it when its convenient.
sturg33
I
That would have reasonable. Have the deal in place - then go to Heyward and put the pressure on him. Then we would have known how badly he wanted to stay in Atlanta.
That didn't happen.
The return of the trade is likely to be good - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be upset about how the whole thing was handled. It legit seems that Heyward was surprised and upset about the trade - which is a ****ty way to treat someone who's given you everything he's got since day one. A simple conversation would have been good for the franchise, the relationship, and Heyward.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
Heyward made it sound like nobody even talked to him about an extension. Nobody with sense believes that. He's a big time piece of the Braves and probably the most recognizable. I have no doubt they talked to the agent.
Safe to assume they were 50 million apart.
In Heyward's case, why would you sign an extension? The time to sign an extension is early. If you are one year from FA, why would you sign? The risk benefit makes no sense.
Heyward's WAR and Age put him in the 20+ million per year for probably 7 or 8 years. He's a very good player. But I don't think the Braves can pay that.
I will be very interested in seeing what he gets. Rumblings out of St Louis is that they aren't super happy. What do you pay a really young and really good player who frustrates daily b/c he's very good when he should be great?
Safe to assume they were 50 million apart.
In Heyward's case, why would you sign an extension? The time to sign an extension is early. If you are one year from FA, why would you sign? The risk benefit makes no sense.
Heyward's WAR and Age put him in the 20+ million per year for probably 7 or 8 years. He's a very good player. But I don't think the Braves can pay that.
I will be very interested in seeing what he gets. Rumblings out of St Louis is that they aren't super happy. What do you pay a really young and really good player who frustrates daily b/c he's very good when he should be great?
Putting on my Braves hat I fully believe that both sides knew where each stood. I doubt the trade was a tremendous shock to Heyward. At least his representation should have laid out all possibilities and after the way 2014 ended trading him was a very real possibility.
sturg33
I
You always put the Braves hat on.
Let's put the Heyward hat on. It's easy to do because he laid out everything after the trade. He was pissed - and I wouldn't blame him. Making a phone call to a cornerstone player should be a pre-requisite before trading him in any organization
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Heyward coming out of school was compared to Winfield
Winfields career stats - 283 / 353 / 475
Heywards career stats - 261 / 348 / 426
Winfields first 5 seaons he had a 764 OPS
He seems to be right in line with what scouts thought he would be
Winfield was actually becoming a better hitter. So far Heyward is going in the opposite direction.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Winfield's first 5 seasons:
273 / 340 / 424
Heyward through 5 seasons:
261 / 348 / 426
Just stop.......Heyward has been who the scouts thought he would be, although the average is probably 10-15 points low.....1 Month at the start of 2015 and a hip injury doesn't change anything. But keep spinning if you want
Stop with career totals. Where is each player trending at the same time?
Winfield had his best season in his fifth full season (over the course of the span you are using). Heyward best year has been his rookie season.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Why would I stop? It's who he was compared to......it seems to be rather relevant.
As for trending, again, Heyward had a 860 OPS in May before he hurt his hip. Ignore the facts if you want, your choice. Heyward hasn't been a disappoint, he has been one of the better all around players in the league since he came up and his career is on the pace that scouts thought it would be.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Winfield did not have his best season his 5th season.
wRC+ by year 103 116 113 132 117 his 5th year wRC+ was right there with year 2 and 3.
His overall career will be dictated by how he finishes it. If he doesn't finish it well, he'll largely be a bust. But if he plays the game the way he should, he'll be a solid player, Not that different from Winfield.
No one knows how he'll finish his career so stop lying to yourself.
FULL seasons sir.
When Winfield entered free agency - they still had the draft then - every team wanted him. This fall, we'll see how favorably Heyward compares with Winfield.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
That was in my original post silly. Read!
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
That's not what your original post said. That's what your second post on the subject said.