Sherman: Braves offered Heyward 80M after 2013

[Heyward]

Was a waste of money. It drives me nuts that we say we couldn't afford folks like Heyward and Upton, but we are giving:

11M to Markakis

3M to Callaspo

2M to KJ

2M to Gomes

6M to Cahill

4M to Grilli

Don't get me wrong - I understand you have to fill the roster and what not, but that's nearly $30M right there for folks who are not going to help us in the magical 2017. And I also understand that the returns from the Heyward/Upton trade were not insignificant - but we have to invest in good players when we have the chance. Unfortunately - trying to lock up someone in our own clubhouse is a heck of a lot easier than competing on the open market - which is the path we've chosen.

With the exception of Markakis, most of those deals will be off the books next year, bad argument.

And given Heyward's offensive struggles, can you really make a logical argument to pay him 25 mil a year or more, there really isnt one to make.

 

[Heyward]

We have Nick ****ing Markakis in RF making 45 million dollars and people are trashing Heyward.........hilarious.

Yet hes out-performing Heyward offensively lol.

Probably wont keep up, i know.

 

[Heyward]

If he gets healthy, there's no reason Jason can't be a top player in this league. If he doesn't overcome the injuries, then he's obviously not going to have Winfield's career.

Other than the hip injury, where has he been hurt?

And he wasnt that good offensively in 2014 either.

He's been trending down offensively, pretty clear you're still bitter/mad about the trade, let it go.

 

[zitothebrave]

Just so I am clear...

We are comparing Jason Heyward to Dave Winfield, the HOFer with 3110 hits and 465 HRs? The guy whose OPS+ over his early career went like this:

106 (not even close to a full season)

115

116

135

124

151

166

While Heyward's went like this so far:

131

93

117

114

106

80

If Heyward recovers to put up a 150 OPS+ year this season, then we can talk. Until then, just stop, please.

It should be beyond obvious that Heyward most likely isn't going to become the player we all hoped for. And certainly NOT the next Dave Winfield.

OPS+ is worthless

Winfield

103 - 21

116 - 22

113 - 23

132 - 24

117 - 25

144 - 26

Heyward

134 - 20

96 - 21

121 - 22

120 - 23

110 - 24

84 - 25

So again, Winfield's best season happened when he was a year older than Jason so while we're arbitrarily using half seasons and **** like that might as well include that point.

Heyward

 

[sturg33]

With the exception of Markakis, most of those deals will be off the books next year, bad argument.

And given Heyward's offensive struggles, can you really make a logical argument to pay him 25 mil a year or more, there really isnt one to make.

It's not a bad argument Mr. Matter of Fact.

Th money could have been used for extensions or future year payroll. Instead, it's to pay Alberto Callaspo.

Look at our payroll today and check out what we're paying for. It's depressing.

 

[zitothebrave]

It's not a bad argument Mr. Matter of Fact.

Th money could have been used for extensions or future year payroll. Instead, it's to pay Alberto Callaspo.

Look at our payroll today and check out what we're paying for. It's depressing.

There is a valid point of using that money for extensions. Justin was making like 14M this year, if we didn't sign Mukaki and trade for Cahill and sign Crapllaspo. We could have offered Justin more money this year in an extension to soften the blow down the line.

 

[Tapate50]

It's not a bad argument Mr. Matter of Fact.

Th money could have been used for extensions or future year payroll. Instead, it's to pay Alberto Callaspo.

Look at our payroll today and check out what we're paying for. It's depressing.

There is no evidence to support a theory that if we cut payroll this year it would mean Liberty would allow more payroll flexibility further down the road.

Front load a contract ? That is something I could be sold. Unprecedented though? Besides doesn't that eliminate the inflation portion of those deals that make them bearable (Sherzer?)

 

[thethe]

I'm starting to wonder if the Braves would have been better off extending one of those guys. I'm starting to feel that the trades were the best route.

 

[sturg33]

There is no evidence to support a theory that if we cut payroll this year it would mean Liberty would allow more payroll flexibility further down the road.

Front load a contract ? That is something I could be sold. Unprecedented though? Besides doesn't that eliminate the inflation portion of those deals that make them bearable (Sherzer?)

As opposed to paying it to Callaspo, Gomes, KJ, Markakis, Johnson, & Grili?

 

[Tapate50]

I'm starting to wonder if the Braves would have been better off extending one of those guys. I'm starting to feel that the trades were the best route.

That's the downside, you don't restock the system as well as we did. Different methods, but there isn't any evidence Upton was interested in staying either. He was likely gone as most guys heading to FA are.

 

[zitothebrave]

I'm starting to wonder if the Braves would have been better off extending one of those guys. I'm starting to feel that the trades were the best route.

That's fine. Then if that was the goal, go full rebuild, sign guys like Rasmus, Harang, etc.

 

[Tapate50]

As opposed to paying it to Callaspo, Gomes, KJ, Markakis, Johnson, & Grili?

As opposed to nothing. I simply corrected your runaway theory that Liberty would let management roll payroll forward. That money would go to bolster Liberty bottom line and we would likely never see it.

 

[thethe]

That's fine. Then if that was the goal, go full rebuild, sign guys like Rasmus, Harang, etc.

I think the rebuild has gone very well so far. No plan will every work 100%. Your boy Rasmus is going on full suck mode lately. He may look like an awful acquisition a month from now. Either way, thats not a make or break move.

The organization is strong right now and will have a solid wave of talent ready to hit the major leagues in 2017. That was the plan and it has been executed effectively.

 

[zitothebrave]

I think the rebuild has gone very well so far. No plan will every work 100%. Your boy Rasmus is going on full suck mode lately. He may look like an awful acquisition a month from now. Either way, thats not a make or break move.

The organization is strong right now and will have a solid wave of talent ready to hit the major leagues in 2017. That was the plan and it has been executed effectively.

But if he sucks we're on the hook for 1 or 2 years. Not 4. I don't think Markakis will evene be starting for us in 2018, maybe not even by 2017.

 

[thethe]

But if he sucks we're on the hook for 1 or 2 years. Not 4. I don't think Markakis will evene be starting for us in 2018, maybe not even by 2017.

I believe that Markakis' value to the organization will not only be measured on the field. We are going to have a really young team next year and Nick will be a steady force. To me that stuff matters. I get if you or others want to mock that.

 

[zitothebrave]

I believe that Markakis' value to the organization will not only be measured on the field. We are going to have a really young team next year and Nick will be a steady force. To me that stuff matters. I get if you or others want to mock that.

I think if we cared about having our youngins taken care of we would have kept our best influence on the team. Jason Heyward.

 

[thethe]

I think if we cared about having our youngins taken care of we would have kept our best influence on the team. Jason Heyward.

There is no need to discuss this but Braves had to reason to believe that Heyward was hitting FA.

Thats all I would like to discuss on that matter.

 

[sturg33]

I believe that Markakis' value to the organization will not only be measured on the field. We are going to have a really young team next year and Nick will be a steady force. To me that stuff matters. I get if you or others want to mock that.

Talk about a lack of evidence...

 

[thethe]

Talk about a lack of evidence...

Something that is impossible to evidence so I know most won't take any value in that. Just something I believe and almost every sports organization states that stuff matters as well.

 

[Tapate50]

I get if you don't like what happened, but it's hard to argue with the results. We aren't the worst offense in the league and have exciting pieces waiting to come up. In one single offseason. I'd at least withhold judgement til the end of 16 because a lot can happen and we probably aren't done.