GDT: 5/31, Braves @ Giants; Day Off For Freeman
- Thread starter CrimsonCowboy
- Start date
Exactly. And assume the Pads only have Justin Upton for 1 year. They get Uptons production for 1 year, a draft pick, + can easily add a player the level of Jace Peterson. This is why you cannot say Jace WAR for 5 years is 10 and Upton's 1 year is 5; so we win"
So then you always want the inferior/cheaper player?
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
Well, it depends on the players and the money. I could potentially get more for my money with Jace and 18 mil to spend at multiple positions. I wouldn't mind have Jace Peterson, Dexter Fowler and Lucroy on the team for example.
IMO Jace can be a complimentary piece. Not someone you build around but what contending teams need to contend. I wouldn't say everyone team has them and they are easy to find becuase if the Braves had a Jace Peterson at 2nd and center the last couple of years we are one of the best teams in baseball.
That being said I don't think anyone knows what we have in him yet. He's had a high BABIP the last few weeks or whatever. Is that sustaintable? He is fast so it could be but we will have to wait and see. He's still at a 90 WRC+ though which isn't good by and stretch and right around average for his position. He is getting a real boost from his defense. And again is that sustainable? Is he really that good of a defender or is it just him benefiting from a small sample size?
Time will tell with him which is fine because the Braves have a couple of years before we are contenders IMO and that will give the Braves plenty of time to see what we really have in him.
That being said I don't think anyone knows what we have in him yet. He's had a high BABIP the last few weeks or whatever. Is that sustaintable? He is fast so it could be but we will have to wait and see. He's still at a 90 WRC+ though which isn't good by and stretch and right around average for his position. He is getting a real boost from his defense. And again is that sustainable? Is he really that good of a defender or is it just him benefiting from a small sample size?
Time will tell with him which is fine because the Braves have a couple of years before we are contenders IMO and that will give the Braves plenty of time to see what we really have in him.
You aren't getting Lucroy and Fowler for 17.5 million past 2015 or maybe 2016.
I would take Upton, Peraza, Cervelli over Peterson, Fowler, Lucroy.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
There's no doubt that it's easier to find a guy like Jace than it is a guy like Upton. But some of you are overstating how easy it is to find a player like Jace. Cost controlled above average 2b really aren't that easy to find. Fangraphs has him as the second best defensive 2b in baseball this season. He could wind up being a top 10 2b.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
And you're looking for a catcher in 2017 while the three Johns and I are drinking champagne whilest winning multiple world series. And you had to trade Peraza to get Cervelli so he can't be on your roster. You have Upton and that's it in 2017. And Upton has turned into Dan Uggla.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
Cervelli's value has gone up now that he's actually starting.
I traded Peraza to get Lucroy.
chop2chip
Well-known member
If you look at baseball reference's break down of WAR, it says that you shouldn't use it as an exact measurement due to defensive metrics being imprecise. It states further that you should a range of 1 WAR when making evaluations.
So bottom line is that it's silly to compare Upton and Jace using WAR at this point when the defensive metrics haven't had a time to stabilize.
And what else?
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
A couple of prospects. No one we couldn't live without. Worth it since we'll be going for the threepeat in 2018.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Well said. I think it's fair to assume that Jace can sustain a 90 wRC+. I don't think it's fair to assume his defense is this good until the metrics have time to stabilize. I have noticed in the past few games him missing a few balls that the second best defender at his position should be able to get. While it is forgivable, in order to be a great player he has to be Andrelton lite or his bat won't carry him.
57Brave
Well-known member
What 2B is playing better defense ?
It is kind of a hard position to metric. How do you measure cut off dependability? Or how they respond to back up situations. When do they hold the ball or make a useless throw on an attempted DP ???
So many more things middle infielders do than range for ground balls.
LaStella sucked at all those things I just mentioned. And Uggla was so-so.
Prado was better than both
Jace is a definite upgrade over them all
It is kind of a hard position to metric. How do you measure cut off dependability? Or how they respond to back up situations. When do they hold the ball or make a useless throw on an attempted DP ???
So many more things middle infielders do than range for ground balls.
LaStella sucked at all those things I just mentioned. And Uggla was so-so.
Prado was better than both
Jace is a definite upgrade over them all
chop2chip
Well-known member
I agree wholeheartedly. On a related not, it's one of the reasons why I feel Andrelton is somewhat underrated by defensive metrics. All of his little moves that he's mastered, such as the second base pick off play, his relay throws, etc. aren't properly encapsulated by defensive metrics (I don't think, I could be wrong).
It's likely why a combination of the eye test coupled with DRS is probably the best way to evaluate those guys.
Don't forget how he is the master at faking out base runners. Over the course of a season I would bet that Tron saves about 10 bases with those fakes.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Your embrace of WAR to make your points is um heart warming.