Bullpen

UNCBlue012 said:
I completely understand keeping the rebuild in mind, but I am completely against punting for the sake of punting and if this team has shown one thing, it's that they are not even close to being as bad as we expected and would lead the division if not for the 11 BP loses this year. Just saying. You've got to do something.
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It's not punting for the sake of punting. It's 'punting' (in reality, it's not that, we're trying to find ways to do it) for the sake of of not reducing your future chances, where the team has more potential, for a year in which we are definitely better than expected but still unlikely to truly contend.

The A's last year were amazing for most of the season and looked like arguably the best team in baseball. And they went for it, and it backfired in a major way. And that was in a year in which they actually had a shot to win it all.

We are still a longshot to make the playoffs, much less win it all. There's too much chance involved in baseball. If we made some moves for RP, there's a decent chance Folty would fall off, or Maybin and Peterson would stop hitting, etc., and we could certainly win even less after the moves. So it's not smart.
 
Dont the same arguments apply to also going for it in 2017
smootness said:
It's not punting for the sake of punting. It's 'punting' (in reality, it's not that, we're trying to find ways to do it) for the sake of of not reducing your future chances, where the team has more potential, for a year in which we are definitely better than expected but still unlikely to truly contend.

The A's last year were amazing for most of the season and looked like arguably the best team in baseball. And they went for it, and it backfired in a major way. And that was in a year in which they actually had a shot to win it all.

We are still a longshot to make the playoffs, much less win it all. There's too much chance involved in baseball. If we made some moves for RP, there's a decent chance Folty would fall off, or Maybin and Peterson would stop hitting, etc., and we could certainly win even less after the moves. So it's not smart.
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nsacpi said:
Dont the same arguments apply to also going for it in 2017
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I'm not ever in favor of making big moves to compete in a one- or two-year window. So yes, that does apply to 2017. I don't think the Braves' FO is making decisions looking toward the year 2017 as 'the year'. I think they're just looking at that as the first year at which we plan to be truly competitive.

In baseball, moves should always be made based on value. Trades like 2 months of Samardzija and Hammel for Addison Russell is just awful value on the A's side, no matter what the team looks like.

I'll put it this way. If the Braves were in the position the A's were in last year, except we were the ones with Samardzija, I would absolutely approve of the trade for Addison Russell, even though people would throw their arms up because it would weaken us for the rest of that year. Because in baseball, you should never make decisions around a perceived 'one-year window'.
 
To be clear, I'm only advocating trading for K-Rod if he can be had with no more than spare parts/ low minors guys and salary relief going to the Brewers in return.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
Oh you mean that team that has been more successful in the playoffs than the Braves?
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I don't even know what you're arguing here.

The Phillies were very good for a relatively short period of time. They also completely ignored any long-term plans, so they now utterly suck and will continue to utterly suck for the foreseeable future. Their organization was horribly mismanaged. Yet you want us to follow their model.

You complain that we 'suck' now. Even in a year that we basically threw away, we're competitive. We're 26-27 and 3 games back in the East. Our run differential this year is -8. The Phillies are 21-33, and their run differential is -71. They won 73 games in each of the past two years, after a phenomenal 81-81 season 3 years ago, and are poised to be even worse this year. And there is no sign of life on the horizon, either.

They truly suck. And they suck directly because of decisions like the ones you're advocating. It's not just a coincidence. They sold out their future for a few years. They traded immediate success for long-term sucktitude.

You hate short-term mediocrity (while still able to be somewhat competitive) at the expense of setting yourself up well long-term, but you're ok with short-term competitiveness at the expense of long-term sucktitude?

If you were a Phillies fan now, I can't even imagine how pissed you'd be. Because 'long-term' isn't just some fantasy. Those years will eventually happen, and when they do, they will become the present.
 
The Phillies may lose 100 games this season. Atlanta might win 81 games. In the end it doesn't matter because neither is relevant now and neither will be in the playoffs. So tallying up losses doesn't make a difference when the teams aren't playing in October.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
The Phillies may lose 100 games this season. Atlanta might win 81 games. In the end it doesn't matter because neither is relevant now and neither will be in the playoffs. So tallying up losses doesn't make a difference when the teams aren't playing in October.
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Except the Phillies haven't been relevant in several years and won't be for several more. The Braves were relevant in the recent past and have a good chance to be again soon because of the moves that have left us 'stuck in neutral,' according to you.

Because the Braves aren't stupid. You seem to hate not being relevant now, but would be cool with not being relevant for years?
 
smootness said:
Except the Phillies haven't been relevant in several years and won't be for several more. The Braves were relevant in the recent past and have a good chance to be again soon because of the moves that have left us 'stuck in neutral,' according to you.

Because the Braves aren't stupid. You seem to hate not being relevant now, but would be cool with not being relevant for years?
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You are wasting your breath. Every team he roots for has to be good every year without any hiccups or he is off the bandwagon. Move on.
 
Tapate50 said:
You are wasting your breath. Every team he roots for has to be good every year without any hiccups or he is off the bandwagon. Move on.
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Off the bandwagon? Exactly the wrong thing to say. I still root for my teams, but am very critical of them. Guess fans can't do that or else they are considered haters or fair-weathered fans.
 
smootness said:
No, it isn't.

Check out the Phillies. You're advocating running the organization like they did.
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They lavished big contracts on 30something players like Lee, Thomas, Papelbon, Rollins, Utley and Halladay. Those guys were significantly older than the ones we moved this off-season. Significant difference imo. We had the chance to keep one more relatively young hitter as part of our core. We're going to have to spend at some point for a power bat at third or corner outfield.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
Off the bandwagon? Exactly the wrong thing to say. I still root for my teams, but am very critical of them. Guess fans can't do that or else they are considered haters or fair-weathered fans.
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You have quit this site, told everyone you quit being a fan while we suck, and quit rooting for the 49rs this year until they are good again. Gimme a break.
 
nsacpi said:
They lavished big contracts on 30something players like Lee, Thomas, Papelbon, Rollins, Utley and Halladay. Those guys were significantly older than the ones we moved this off-season. Significant difference imo. We had the chance to keep one more relatively young hitter as part of our core.
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Depending on how great of a chance this was or wasn't probably led them down the path we currently find ourselves on fwiw.
 
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