Christian Bethancourt optioned to Gwinnett

[yeezus]

I think there is. From the outset the front office has made loud noises about not handing the job to CB. There seems to be a thought that he's lazy.

I think he should play. I don't think the spot starts help his development.

But I get the argument that he's not catching well. If he was playing elite defense and hitting like this, I'd say sending him down was a travesty. But he's not. They want the baseline to be 70 defense with 70 or 80 arm. Not 50 defense with 30 hitting.

The spot starts won't help at all. He has to play every day. We saw Jace's defense was shaky when he was playing a couple times a week instead of every day. Maybe it was SSS or whatever, but it's been great since he's been playing every day.

If CB goes down and hits even OK and regains that defensive prowess while working hard and being coachable, he will be back in short time IMO.

 

[Deester11]

The spot starts won't help at all. He has to play every day. We saw Jace's defense was shaky when he was playing a couple times a week instead of every day. Maybe it was SSS or whatever, but it's been great since he's been playing every day.

If CB goes down and hits even OK and regains that defensive prowess while working hard and being coachable, he will be back in short time IMO.

That's what I hope happens and honestly, my only problem with this was that he's not good enough yet to be a part time player. He needed to develop and play and bone headed defensive plays aside, I want to KNOW that he is or isn't serviceable. And I made the same argument about Jace.

 

[yeezus]

That's what I hope happens and honestly, my only problem with this was that he's not good enough yet to be a part time player. He needed to develop and play and bone headed defensive plays aside, I want to KNOW that he is or isn't serviceable. And I made the same argument about Jace.

I think he's still been good statistically defensively despite the gaffs (could be wrong). I don't think playing 1-2 times a week will help him solve those problems. And right now AJ is hitting so much better, they don't want to wave the white flag and start CB regardless.

 

[VirginiaBrave]

This is a last chance kick in the butt. If he doesn't respond like they want him to he will be in another uni by Spring.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

Bethancourt isn't better than a hundred single A guys. Read that to yourself again.

Bethancourt hasn't even played a half of season and you guys are making judgments on him. This is incredible. He very well might not end up being anything (I doubt he's ever less than a backup MLB catcher); however what is the point of not playing him? You know what you get from AJ (not much); at the very least you take a small drop in production and a better understanding of what you have for the future. In a rebuilding year, how does that not make sense?

Okay, I re-read it. And I don't see a problem. I don't think he ever hits enough to be an MLB starter. He's a catch-and-throw guy like 100 others. He doesn't need to be catching in the majors right now.

That's what I think. It's okay if you see something else. But I'm not getting with a group think position that he just needs time to settle in and play. He isn't a good enough player.

 

[gilesfan]

Okay, I re-read it. And I don't see a problem. I don't think he ever hits enough to be an MLB starter. He's a catch-and-throw guy like 100 others. He doesn't need to be catching in the majors right now.

That's what I think. It's okay if you see something else. But I'm not getting with a group think position that he just needs time to settle in and play. He isn't a good enough player.

So you think there are 100 guys in single A just as good?

 

[jpx7]

That's what I think. It's okay if you see something else. But I'm not getting with a group think position that he just needs time to settle in and play. He isn't a good enough player.

It's not about group-think; it's about relative certainty. You see his faults and think he isn't a good enough player; I myself have also always been a Bethancourt skeptic, so I won't much argue with that. However, in a non-competitive season, it'd be nice to gain a little more certainty that we're correct in fearing Bethancourt will never stick as a major-league starter—that's how years like this should be leveraged by an organization, and that's the point in throwing him out there to catch in the majors right now.

(For what it's worth, though, I'm still hopeful the Braves can trade Pierzynski for a minor asset, and until such time dude needs to play to demonstrate his value; Bethancourt needs to play, as well, so ultimately I both understand and support the temporary demotion to AAA.)

 

[yeezus]

It's not about group-think; it's about relative certainty. You see his faults and think he isn't a good enough player; I myself have also always been a Bethancourt skeptic, so I won't much argue with that. However, in a non-competitive season, it'd be nice to gain a little more certainty that we're correct in fearing Bethancourt will never stick as a major-league starter—that's how years like this should be leveraged by an organization, and that's the point in throwing him out there to catch in the majors right now.

(For what it's worth, though, I'm still hopeful the Braves can trade Pierzynski for a minor asset, and until such time dude needs to play to demonstrate his value; Bethancourt needs to play, as well, so ultimately I both understand and support the temporary demotion to AAA.)

Right now, though, we're still competitive.
There's plenty of time to fall out of contention completely and bring CB up.

 

[nsacpi]

I dont think you gain much certainty from him getting another 200 major league at bats as opposed to having them occur in the minors. In fact putting too much stock in small samples just because they occurred in the majors is dangerous. See Jace Petersons 2014 major league data.

It's not about group-think; it's about relative certainty. You see his faults and think he isn't a good enough player; I myself have also always been a Bethancourt skeptic, so I won't much argue with that. However, in a non-competitive season, it'd be nice to gain a little more certainty that we're correct in fearing Bethancourt will never stick as a major-league starter—that's how years like this should be leveraged by an organization, and that's the point in throwing him out there to catch in the majors right now.

(For what it's worth, though, I'm still hopeful the Braves can trade Pierzynski for a minor asset, and until such time dude needs to play to demonstrate his value; Bethancourt needs to play, as well, so ultimately I both understand and support the temporary demotion to AAA.)

 

[Hawk]

I dont think you gain much certainty from him getting another 200 major league at bats as opposed to having them occur in the minors.

Cumulative effect.

 

[jpx7]

I dont think you gain much certainty from him getting another 200 major league at bats as opposed to having them occur in the minors. In fact putting too much stock in small samples just because they occurred in the majors is dangerous. See Jace Petersons 2014 major league data.

I think you gain some, which is something. I would've preferred a full season's worth—one reason why I didn't really love the signing of Ne Plus Ultra over the off-season—but at this point, putting Bethancourt at Gwinnett makes sense.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

So you think there are 100 guys in single A just as good?

I am not impressed with the play of Christian Bethancourt and feel that he has as much chance of being a ML starter as 100 others.

Why is that so hard to understand? The only plus thing I've seen is his arm, and there are plenty of guys with an arm. If you can't hit, you can't play big league ball. And although I don't know him, his style of play appears sloppy to me. Head, hitting, attitude - I stand by my statement.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

It's not about group-think; it's about relative certainty. You see his faults and think he isn't a good enough player; I myself have also always been a Bethancourt skeptic, so I won't much argue with that. However, in a non-competitive season, it'd be nice to gain a little more certainty that we're correct in fearing Bethancourt will never stick as a major-league starter—that's how years like this should be leveraged by an organization, and that's the point in throwing him out there to catch in the majors right now.

(For what it's worth, though, I'm still hopeful the Braves can trade Pierzynski for a minor asset, and until such time dude needs to play to demonstrate his value; Bethancourt needs to play, as well, so ultimately I both understand and support the temporary demotion to AAA.)

Well, assuming we fall out of the race at some point, I think that's fine if we need to see more. We're kinda still in it, though. And AJ can hit.

 

[gilesfan]

I am not impressed with the play of Christian Bethancourt and feel that he has as much chance of being a ML starter as 100 others.

Why is that so hard to understand? The only plus thing I've seen is his arm, and there are plenty of guys with an arm. If you can't hit, you can't play big league ball. And although I don't know him, his style of play appears sloppy to me. Head, hitting, attitude - I stand by my statement.

Because claiming he's not any better than 100 single A catchers is extremely dumb to be frank.

I mean, this isn't just a difference of opinion.

 

[Hawk]

I am not impressed with the play of Christian Bethancourt and feel that he has as much chance of being a ML starter as 100 others.

Why is that so hard to understand? The only plus thing I've seen is his arm, and there are plenty of guys with an arm. If you can't hit, you can't play big league ball. And although I don't know him, his style of play appears sloppy to me. Head, hitting, attitude - I stand by my statement.

I agree with your assessment of the caliber of play that we've witnessed so far from Bethancourt this season. However, I don't believe that we can push aside the fact that he was a Top 100 prospect two years ago just yet -- especially when you couple that with the weakness the organization possesses at C. You have to give him every possible opportunity to stick, and to agree with JPX, the status of this team as 'rebuilding' should necessitate throwing him out there even at a detriment to the team because now is the prime time to figure out how he factors into the equation -- if at all. Maybe the Braves have simply already decided that he doesn't.

 

[jpx7]

We're kinda still in it, though.

To me, that's a bit of a façade.

 

[yeezus]

To me, that's a bit of a façade.

and if we're bad enough, we'll fall out of it and CB will get his time.
let's see if he can hit in AAA and get his defense together.

 

[nsacpi]

I agree with your assessment of the caliber of play that we've witnessed so far from Bethancourt this season. However, I don't believe that we can push aside the fact that he has a Top 100 prospect two years ago just yet -- especially when you couple that with the weakness the organization possesses at C. You have to give him every possible opportunity to stick, and to agree with JPX, the status of this team as 'rebuilding' should necessitate throwing him out there even at a detriment to the team because now is the prime time to figure out how he factors into the equation -- if at all. Maybe the Braves have simply already decided that he doesn't.

The organizational weakness at catcher is a pretty important consideration. As I've said before to me he looks like a backup catcher in the majors. That has value. And players surprise to upside and downside all the time. So I would keep him but as the #2 catcher. If he beats out the #1 that's great. But we need to pick up a solid #1. Doesn't have to be an All-Star who commands big bucks. I'm perfectly fine with someone who is solid defensively and will not hurt the team batting 7th or 8th.

My view on this won't change based on what he does the rest the year. He could hit .300 the rest of the way in either in the majors or in AAA and I would still argue we should go into 2016 with him as our #2 catcher.

 

[NinersSBChamps]

Just because he was a top 100 rated prospect doesn't mean anything. There are a lot more guys on that list that never make it or fail.

 

[jpx7]

and if we're bad enough, we'll fall out of it and CB will get his time.
let's see if he can hit in AAA and get his defense together.

...

(For what it's worth, though, I'm still hopeful the Braves can trade Pierzynski for a minor asset, and until such time dude needs to play to demonstrate his value; Bethancourt needs to play, as well, so ultimately I both understand and support the temporary demotion to AAA.)