Heyman: Braves have tried to trade CJ eating alot of the deal.

[zbhargrove]

Yes it is silly. Using that as your only argument to criticize is a player is silly. The vast majority of players hit better at home than away. And Mac and has had drastic home/Rd splits in the past, even in Atl. Making a judgement with just over 600 at bats in a Yankee uniform is silly. Are his stats worrisome? Sure. But saying he is a complete product of Yankee stadium based off 600 at bats is most definetly silly.

600 at bats is more than a full season... That's not exactly a small sample size. All you have to do is look at how he was performing as a Brave the two years before he left. He was awful. He is nowhere near the same player that he used to be and he doesn't have age on his side. I normally agree with you Carp, but you are blinded on this one simply because he's an old favorite. You should know better. My arguments are far from silly and I provided much more reasoning than just the splits but you choose not to address those.

 

[zbhargrove]

Mac has plenty of power. And large majority of his homers are still homers at Turner. Try again.

You mean the majority when he was much younger, more athletic, and a better hitter? Well duh...

 

[clvclv]

I don't know if he's better value or not, but I don't see why a team would give up on a top 50 prospect to pay someone $20 million to play out of position. Taylor is a good defensive centerfielder at a defensive premium position. That would be a waste of limited resources unless they were to trade Taylor for something of good value.

Exactly the point many here have tried to make when saying they aren't interested in having him come back or were interested in keeping him if that kind of money was in the neighborhood of what he and his representation are/were looking for. That's simply too much money for a mid-market team to pay someone who hasn't proven he can be an impact bat, regardless of how good he is defensively (whatever position he plays) or in hopes that he'll eventually becomes an impact player offensively.

Teams that will give him that kind of money are 1.) looking for a "name" to excite the fanbase, and 2.) don't necessarily need him to become that impact bat to be a contender. None of this is to say that Jason can't/won't be an important part of a contending club, but if the Braves invest that kind of money in a player, he has to be one of THE GUYS - an "Ace" or a very productive #3 or #4 hitter. To this point in his career, he's not one.

 

[clvclv]

And do you think Jason’s a CF in 6 years?

No - at least I don't think it's likely. I was fishing to get gf's response to prove my point from another team's perspective - that there's a much better way for the Braves to allocate those kind of resources just as there is for most teams. If Jason ever turned into an impact hitter the story would certainly be different - so far he hasn't, and there are much better ways for teams to spend that kind of money IMO.

 

[gilesfan]

No - at least I don't think it's likely. I was fishing to get gf's response to prove my point from another team's perspective - that there's a much better way for the Braves to allocate those kind of resources just as there is for most teams. If Jason ever turned into an impact hitter the story would certainly be different - so far he hasn't, and there are much better ways for teams to spend that kind of money IMO.

Are people saying that Heyward would get 20 mil from every team in the majors?

 

[Braves1976]

Speaking of Chris Johnson, one reason the Braves may want to try harder to dump him now is Uribe. Uribe has a .820 OPS with us vs lefties (slightly better than his OPS vs righties). Chris Johnson is still our best vs lefties with a .946 OPS but that's less a need since Uribe provides good numbers vs lefties too and much better defense. Further, I'd look to extend Uribe another year rather than trade him unless we get a trade offer for him we cannot pass up.

 

[Heyward]

Out WAR-ing Nick the Stick now too

No one said Markakis > Heyward, just the money difference wasnt a big deal.

Heyward probably gets 20-25+ mil a year regardless.

 

[thewupk]

600 at bats is more than a full season... That's not exactly a small sample size. All you have to do is look at how he was performing as a Brave the two years before he left. He was awful. He is nowhere near the same player that he used to be and he doesn't have age on his side. I normally agree with you Carp, but you are blinded on this one simply because he's an old favorite. You should know better. My arguments are far from silly and I provided much more reasoning than just the splits but you choose not to address those.

Really? Outside of 2014 and 2012 when he had BABIP's in the 230's he's been a WRC+ player in the 120 range since 2009. So yeah this is his current talent level. He had just had a couple of really unlucky seasons thrown in there.

 

[Heyward]

I would take Mac back if they ate some salary, in the event they got Wieters.

Dont think it would happen but he'd be fine away from NY.

 

[JohnAdcox]

No - at least I don't think it's likely. I was fishing to get gf's response to prove my point from another team's perspective - that there's a much better way for the Braves to allocate those kind of resources just as there is for most teams. If Jason ever turned into an impact hitter the story would certainly be different - so far he hasn't, and there are much better ways for teams to spend that kind of money IMO.

Agreed. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’d be AT LEAST as happy with Markakis in left, Smith in center, and Maybin in right … I’m just not sold on the idea what we absolutely must add an outfielder. Offense isn;t our issue; catching and pen need serious help.

 

[JohnAdcox]

Speaking of Chris Johnson, one reason the Braves may want to try harder to dump him now is Uribe. Uribe has a .820 OPS with us vs lefties (slightly better than his OPS vs righties). Chris Johnson is still our best vs lefties with a .946 OPS but that's less a need since Uribe provides good numbers vs lefties too and much better defense. Further, I'd look to extend Uribe another year rather than trade him unless we get a trade offer for him we cannot pass up.

This. In the short term, I’d happy with some combination of Uribe and Kelly Johnson there. Our more pressing needs are elsewhere.

 

[smootness]

Really? Outside of 2014 and 2012 when he had BABIP's in the 230's he's been a WRC+ player in the 120 range since 2009. So yeah this is his current talent level. He had just had a couple of really unlucky seasons thrown in there.

I don't know if those seasons were just unlucky. He did not hit the ball well...a lot of weak ground balls and pop-ups.

 

[thewupk]

I don't know if those seasons were just unlucky. He did not hit the ball well...a lot of weak ground balls and pop-ups.

Either way I think those are outliers. He had a 22% LD rate last season which is higher than his career average. He may have had some weak grounders and popped the ball up more than normal. But it's not like he popped it up at Simmons 2013 levels. He shouldn't have had a BABIP in the 230's.

 

[Braves1976]

This. In the short term, I’d happy with some combination of Uribe and Kelly Johnson there. Our more pressing needs are elsewhere.

Yea, if we can extend Uribe then our more pressing needs would be catcher, bullpen and OF IMO. Well, also manager too, but I am hoping Fredi is gone after his contract runs out.

 

[Carp]

600 at bats is more than a full season... That's not exactly a small sample size. All you have to do is look at how he was performing as a Brave the two years before he left. He was awful. He is nowhere near the same player that he used to be and he doesn't have age on his side. I normally agree with you Carp, but you are blinded on this one simply because he's an old favorite. You should know better. My arguments are far from silly and I provided much more reasoning than just the splits but you choose not to address those.

600 at bats is right at a full season for most starting players. But I'm not going to argue semantics.

I fail to see how he was "awful" his last 2 years as a Brave. Was he hitting like the best catcher in baseball like he was in his former days? No. But awful he was not. Especially his last season with us, he was a very productive player.

Again, I have no qualms with someone mentioning concerns about trading for Mac. There certainly are some concerns. And I'm not even saying his splits aren't concerning. But to put so much faith into split stats are silly, imo, especially with barely a season's worth of PA's to look at. He could literally have one hot weekend at Fenway and his away stats would look respectable this year.

 

[gilesfan]

Either way I think those are outliers. He had a 22% LD rate last season which is higher than his career average. He may have had some weak grounders and popped the ball up more than normal. But it's not like he popped it up at Simmons 2013 levels. He shouldn't have had a BABIP in the 230's.

Maybe not .230 but he hits a lot of flyballs. And when he hits on the fround, hes awfully slow.

 

[thewupk]

Maybe not .230 but he hits a lot of flyballs. And when he hits on the fround, hes awfully slow.

Sure. But he's had those ratios before and not hit in the 230's. To me luck was the biggest factor for his down year last season.

 

[zbhargrove]

Really? Outside of 2014 and 2012 when he had BABIP's in the 230's he's been a WRC+ player in the 120 range since 2009. So yeah this is his current talent level. He had just had a couple of really unlucky seasons thrown in there.

Actually for his player profile... A fly ball hitter with diminishing power... A low BABIP makes a lot of sense

 

[thewupk]

Actually for his player profile... A fly ball hitter with diminishing power... A low BABIP makes a lot of sense

Yeah because there isn't much of a difference between a low BABIP in the 280's and a year in which it's in the 230's. Mac has a base line of a WRC+ player in the 120 range. He's been that guy for years now. What he's doing righ t now shouldn't shock anyone.

 

[zbhargrove]

Yeah because there isn't much of a difference between a low BABIP in the 280's and a year in which it's in the 230's. Mac has a base line of a WRC+ player in the 120 range. He's been that guy for years now. What he's doing righ t now shouldn't shock anyone.

Right, when his BABIP was about .280 he was a lot luckier