Trade one Keep One

zitothebrave said:
Wut? There are at a minimum 10 high quality 3B in baseball this year. Frazier, Donaldson, Machado, Arenado, Bryant, Moosetacos, Longo, Carpenter, Plouff, and Seager. Then the handful of really good 3B like Lawrie, Escobar, Prado, Beltre, Freese, Harrison, Valbuena.

There are so many good 3B, that Pablo sandoval is 20th in WAR (because of defense primarily) I can't think of a time in baseball when 3B has been stronger.
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Escobar? The headcase who is at 0.7 WAR vs Ciiraco's 0.5?

Prado with a 0.8 WAR and 82 CAREER HRs in 9 years. Is it crazy that a 24 y/o Peraza could hit 8-10 HR a year like Prado? He is 6 feet tall, he could fill out.

None of the guys you'd want are available. Not a FA for the next two years worth having. Why can't Peraza be an upgrade over what we have?

Maybe we could get Prado...but I don't see that he's a major upgrade over Peraza or Peterson.
 
The 82 Cards played on turf, essentially a concrete parking lot with turf stretched over the top, and played in a league of big parks (some of which also had turf).

It was a different era and a slightly (but significant) different game.

Since 1990 there's been only 2-3 WS teams who were worse than league average for total HR and very few actual playoff teams. Teams that HAVE made that work are teams who play in pitching parks in pitching divisions such as the Giants and Dodgers.

The Braves DON'T need a team full of Adam Dunn but to discount power as a key part of the offense is playing a long shot before even starting. And, I would say that there is an element which I will call "offensive relativity" which says that players who provide more offense than is traditional for their position will be paid significantly above their value, even if that offense isn't significantly better than what would be provided by a different position. In other words, if you have a 1.) 30 hr hitting shortstop and a 0 hr hitting RF on one team and a 2.) 30 hr hitting RF and a 0 hr hitting ss on a different team, then the combined salaries of the second group will be less than the first because you pay for the scarcity of that ss power.

The average team HR in MLB over the last five years are:
2010: 154
2011: 152
2012: 164
2013: 155
2014: 140

That number includes both AL & NL but the NL numbers are about 5-10 less (you can look it up if you wish).
 
Russ2dollas said:
Escobar? The headcase who is at 0.7 WAR vs Ciiraco's 0.5?

Prado with a 0.8 WAR and 82 CAREER HRs in 9 years. Is it crazy that a 24 y/o Peraza could hit 8-10 HR a year like Prado? He is 6 feet tall, he could fill out.

None of the guys you'd want are available. Not a FA for the next two years worth having. Why can't Peraza be an upgrade over what we have?

Maybe we could get Prado...but I don't see that he's a major upgrade over Peraza or Peterson.
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Prado is your best case for Peraza btw at 3B> Hit well enough but give amazing defense. And escobar has a 1.1 fWAR through abour half the season. 2 fWAR is a good player. Ciriaco has played pretty well if he put his stats up ovewr a full season he'd do well, That being said, if you combine all 6 years he spent in the majors, he still doens't have 600 PA. I don't think bringing him up makes even a lick of sense.

And there is someone on that list we could get, Todd Frazier. A Miller and Uribe for Frazier and Lorenzen trade could benefit both teams quite well. Cincy needs pitching, Braves need power and a 3B. WE're basically giving them a plug in 3B for this year, and a fantastic pitcher, we're taking back a very nice pitching prospect and a great 3B. Unfortunately we waited a year too late to move on Frazier. As his power finally kicked in and he's amazing now.

And it's not an upgrade over either of them. It's getting someone who can put similar value at 3B to them (aka hit around average for the league and provide great defense) and using them as leverage in a trade to get better at a position of weakness (catcher, corner OF)
 
Russ2dollas said:
Is it crazy that a 24 y/o Peraza could hit 8-10 HR a year like Prado? He is 6 feet tall, he could fill out.
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Given that Peraza has only 7 HRs in his entire minor league career (over 1600 ABs), yes that is a pretty crazy expectation. Given the way he has hit the last two years and since he has become a Brave Uribe would likely outproduce Peraza by a decent amount at 3B IMO. Personally I'd see if we could peel away the younger Seager from the Dodgers, but it would likely take Miller to get him which would likely not go over well for most.
 
Russ2dollas said:
he's got to be 2 years away minimum. Good prospect but struggled this year and he's only 20 or 21 I think.
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I wouldn't say 2 years minimum. I think come next June he'll be in play but I agree patience and letting him develop are incredibly important. Rio is maybe my favorite player we traded for. He does need to develop power, but I'm hoping he has like a David Wright light clickign moment, when he went from pretty good power at 18, 19, and 20 and then it just clicked at 21. Of course Ruiz is there now, but the age isn't as important as the click. By all reports Ruiz has the physical build for that.
 
thethe said:
I think OBP is the most important stat. If you give me guys that are all above 330 then I'm happy.
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OBP is the most important stat probably, but you still need a decent amount of slugging, else you'll wind up with a ton of those 1-2 run 10 hit box scores we have been putting up lately.
 
You trade Peraza. His inability to take a walk combined with his inability to hit for even doubles power limits his offense. And, as a second baseman he is out of position defensively, even if he can handle it.

Here's a different thougt: Trade Simmons and play Peraza at short? Simmons is probably light years better defensively and has more pop but will likely always hit for lower average and not steal as many bases. But, Simmons trade value would be much, much greater.
 
auyushu said:
OBP is the most important stat probably, but you still need a decent amount of slugging, else you'll wind up with a ton of those 1-2 run 10 hit box scores we have been putting up lately.
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Well you need A power guy or two. Without Freeman the lineup is awful.
 
auyushu said:
Given that Peraza has only 7 HRs in his entire minor league career (over 1600 ABs), yes that is a pretty crazy expectation. Given the way he has hit the last two years and since he has become a Brave Uribe would likely outproduce Peraza by a decent amount at 3B IMO. Personally I'd see if we could peel away the younger Seager from the Dodgers, but it would likely take Miller to get him which would likely not go over well for most.
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The guy whose probably the best prospect in baseball, and starts for LA next year?

Yeah, good luck with that.
 
thewupk said:
You need good hitters and usually good hitters have some power.
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I want guys that battle at the plate and make the pitcher work. If they have power wonderful. If not, I still want those players on my team. I wonder if there are studies done on teams that draw the most pitches per AB and how that correlates to runs scored.
 
Heyward said:
The guy whose probably the best prospect in baseball, and starts for LA next year?

Yeah, good luck with that.
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Yeah, only reason I could see it happening is if you catch them needing a starter at the deadline and move a controllable asset like Shelby Miller, and the production of Turner this year making them really not have room at 3B atm.
 
Peraza has speed, which is definitely an organizational need. It's a matter of getting on, moving quickly over to 2nd and causing disruption on the base paths. The club was always more successful with a "classic" top of the order, base stealing threat (Nixon, Grissom and Furcal - Lofton didn't work out for other reasons). The subject of walking keeps arising in reference to Peraza. Pitch selectivity is coachable, plus it's only his first season at AAA. Unless somebody knows for sure that he's a free swinger with only massive strikeout quantities in the future, give him time for more seasoning.

OTOH, was anybody here really that high on Jace Peterson at the time of the trade? Yeah, he's done nicely, but as has been mentioned, he's probably got more value now. At the same time, his potential might be maxed. So, that's the decision, but it's not as if there's some rush. It's always possible to keep things as they are now for one more year and re-visit after 2016.
 
I've said for a while that peraza at ss is the best ROI.

I'm just not sure we have options. Maybe the rockies would trade McMahon since they have Arenado. Maybe the twins would trade Ploffe b/c they have Sano? Not sure if we match up.

I don't see us trading Miller. That's Hart's guy.

I get that Prado is the comp for both Peraza and Peterson. My point is if Prado is a top half of the league 3b, that we could get that from one of those guys for cheap. And I think that is probably the high side of their offensive capability, but i think both of them could be better defensively. Especially Peraza.
 
Heyward said:
Most of our lineup has OBP's over 320 or so.

Im in agreement we need some more power hitters badly though.
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We do. Otherwise we have to piece togethor a lot of hits togethor to score runs. And while that has happened a lot fthis year I don't necessarily think it is something to be counted on going forward.
 
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