The Iran Deal

Hawk said:
If you don't want people to call you anti-Semitic, then perhaps you shouldn't say anti-Semitic things like, "Actually Israel was created cause no one wanted all the jews" or "it was made cause no one wanted European Jews in Europe." That kind of language is both culturally insensitive, not to mention historically inaccurate.

So, maybe you should stop trying to double-down on your bull****.
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The shocking thing to me is that Zito actually believes the things that he says
 
Hawk said:
If you don't want people to call you anti-Semitic then perhaps you shouldn't say anti-Semitic things like, "Actually Israel was created cause no one wanted all the jews" or "it was made cause no one wanted European Jews in Europe." That kind of language is culturally insensitive, not to mention historically inaccurate.

So, maybe you should stop trying to double-down on your bull****.
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http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005459

Except it isn't doubled down bull****.

"The Nazi Holocaust, which engulfed millions of Jews in Europe, proved anew the urgency of the reestablishment of the Jewish State, which would solve the problem of Jewish homelessness by opening the gates to all Jews and lifting the Jewish people to equality in the family of nations."

That was said by the first prime minister of Israel.

Maybe my phrasing is crass, I've never been one to try to sugar coat things. But when we look back at history, you see the mistakes of imperialistic nation building but we constantly perpetuate it.
 
thethe said:
Just trying to change history. Those of us that remember know what you are. That's fine because there have been millions of people just like you in history. It's not a shock to me.
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Not trying to change history at all. Just pointing out the facts. Sorry if I offend your sensibilities with facts. It is what it is. You think I don't like an entire religion, because I don't believe we should be propping them up with billions upon billions of dollars, not to mention military resources.
 
Yiu just posted a quote that basically says Israel was created to protect the Jews. Therefore, saying things against the state of Israel is akin to saying things against the Jews.

Yiu weren't crass in what you said. You were antisemitic which is in line with your history of posting on this board.
 
zitothebrave said:
Not trying to change history at all. Just pointing out the facts. Sorry if I offend your sensibilities with facts. It is what it is. You think I don't like an entire religion, because I don't believe we should be propping them up with billions upon billions of dollars, not to mention military resources.
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There are mutiple reasons to aid Israel. One, they are the most stable nation in a region of immense importance and two they seem to always face nations and groups that want to eradicate them.
 
zitothebrave said:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005459

Except it isn't doubled down bull****.

"The Nazi Holocaust, which engulfed millions of Jews in Europe, proved anew the urgency of the reestablishment of the Jewish State, which would solve the problem of Jewish homelessness by opening the gates to all Jews and lifting the Jewish people to equality in the family of nations."

That was said by the first prime minister of Israel.

Maybe my phrasing is crass, I've never been one to try to sugar coat things. But when we look back at history, you see the mistakes of imperialistic nation building but we constantly perpetuate it.
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Right. Neither the link you sourced or the quote you provided has anything to do with your grossly oversimplified (and I'm sorry, I don't think you are anti-Semitic, but the word choice unequivocally is) claim of: "no one wanted all the jews".

It's not crass phraseology. It's historical ignorance. Palestine was Israeli holy land. Zion. They weren't going anywhere else.
 
thethe said:
Yiu just posted a quote that basically says Israel was created to protect the Jews. Therefore, saying things against the state of Israel is akin to saying things against the Jews.

Yiu weren't crass in what you said. You were antisemitic which is in line with your history of posting on this board.
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I posted a quote in direct contradiction to Hawk saying what I did said was "bull ****" because it wasn't.

I'll propose something different. Instead of paying billions upon billions per year to keep arming Israel and keeping a lightning rod for terrorism recruiting (something you think is the biggest issue) lets take those billions buy up some land in Montana and the Dakotas and let everyoen from Israel immigrate to there. At a population of around 8M it wouldn't even be cramped, Considering Israel is about the size of New Jersey, if we gave them a third of montana (about 50 square miles) they'd have more space then they'd know what to do with it. Booming Montana's population they'd be a significant voice in the house as well. As they'd push Montana into a Michigan/New Jersey level of population. with their existing population.

No more violence, they'd have a place to forever safely call home, wouldn't be too much of a burden on the people who already live there. And with that large of a number of people they'd have the ability to make their own way in the richest country in the world. And we'd save because we'd stop giving money nad we'd be receiving money instead. Win win. And we can go back to letting the middle east keep killing themselves.
 
Hawk said:
Right. Neither the link you sourced or the quote you provided has anything to do with your grossly oversimplified (and I'm sorry, I don't think you are anti-Semitic, but the word choice unequivocally is) claim of: "no one wanted all the jews".

It's not crass phraseology. It's historical ignorance. Palestine was Israeli holy land. Zion. They weren't going anywhere else.
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They weren't going anywhere, but we wouldn't have been involved if we didn't create the state. Britain wanted nothing to do with the area, they wanted out. We created Israel and propped them up and one of the reasons it was sold was just that, a place for displaced Jews to go. I mean read the quote, basically saying "we'll take any and all Jewish people, we need more. So don't bother going back to your destroyed homes, no one wants oyu there, we want you here!"
 
thethe said:
There are mutiple reasons to aid Israel. One, they are the most stable nation in a region of immense importance and two they seem to always face nations and groups that want to eradicate them.
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If you think terrorism is our biggest threat, you shouldn't support Israel. I'll keep it really simple. Most of our issues with the Islamic nations we're at war with, are because of propping up Israel.
 
zitothebrave said:
They weren't going anywhere, but we wouldn't have been involved if we didn't create the state. Britain wanted nothing to do with the area, they wanted out. We created Israel and propped them up and one of the reasons it was sold was just that, a place for displaced Jews to go. I mean read the quote, basically saying "we'll take any and all Jewish people, we need more. So don't bother going back to your destroyed homes, no one wants oyu there, we want you here!"
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The United Nations formed Israel. Britain supported the Jewish state.

Your reading of history is bizarre.

And that quote simply says, 'If you are homeless, here's a home for you.'

Enough with the bull****.

The more important issue here is why you believe we shouldn't support the Israelis ...
 
Hawk said:
I meant which did he announce; The Israel deal or the military option?
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Both
Announced the deal and mentioned / hinted the military option was still ---- an option. By saying (I paraphrase) should Iran not hold up their end we still maintain all of the options we had "yesterday."
 
thethe said:
Yiu just posted a quote that basically says Israel was created to protect the Jews. Therefore, saying things against the state of Israel is akin to saying things against the Jews.

Yiu weren't crass in what you said. You were antisemitic which is in line with your history of posting on this board.
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Whoa! Israel is a political entity and pluralistic secular state. Judaism is a religion. One can be critical of Israel and not disparaging of Jews. Some see the religion and the state as one in the same, but there are a number of Jews--many within Israel--who are critical of the government there.

Read Barbara Tuchman's Bible and Sword for a pretty decent history of the Jewish return to Palestine.
 
50PoundHead said:
Whoa! Israel is a political entity and pluralistic secular state. Judaism is a religion. One can be critical of Israel and not disparaging of Jews. Some see the religion and the state as one in the same, but there are a number of Jews--many within Israel--who are critical of the government there.
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Perhaps better phrased in the context of the discussion: * One can be critical of Israeli politics and not disparaging of Jews * ... but there's a very fine line.

Some call it new-antisemitism. Zito was clearly espousing some anti-Israel beliefs, the notion that the country is 'propped up' etc etc.
 
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Hawk said:
Perhaps better phrased in the context of the discussion: * One can be critical of Israeli politics and not disparaging of Jews * ... but there's a very fine line.

Some call it new-antisemitism. Zito was clearly espousing some anti-Israel beliefs, the notion that the country is 'propped up' etc etc.
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The country is propped up by the west. see events like the British bombing of Jewish holocaust survivor ships pretending to be a group of Arab terrorists in an attempt to drum up support for Israel.
 
50PoundHead said:
Whoa! Israel is a political entity and pluralistic secular state. Judaism is a religion. One can be critical of Israel and not disparaging of Jews. Some see the religion and the state as one in the same, but there are a number of Jews--many within Israel--who are critical of the government there.

Read Barbara Tuchman's Bible and Sword for a pretty decent history of the Jewish return to Palestine.
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Israel is the state of the Jews. Every decision that is made is with the intention to preserve the Jewish people. To mostly everyone in the world they are one in the same.
 
thethe said:
There are mutiple reasons to aid Israel. One, they are the most stable nation in a region of immense importance and two they seem to always face nations and groups that want to eradicate them.
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Are they really "a stable nation"? Seems like they've been in conflict since they arrived and are the source of much of the conflict/unrest in the region. They certainly give the impression of being pro-America, as they should.
 
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