Outside the box trade

blueagleace1

blueagleace1

Playing the Waiting Game
If there is one thing lacking on this years trade market it's starting pitchers with multiple years of control remaining. Really, the only impactful arm who's "available" is Cole Hamels and possibly James Shields. My point in bringing this up is I think we could take advantage of the market and here's how...

1.) If we truly have the finances (which seems we do) to sign a TOR starter then this makes all the sense

2.) If we feel confident in signing someone like David Price (my #1 choice simply because we know he would love the opportunity to pitch for his favorite team growing up and the one closest to his home) or Jordan Zimmerman, Zack Greinke, Johnny Cueto, .etc then we make the below move..

3.) Trade Alex Wood (I have more faith in Julio Teheran and the emergence of Manny Banuelos gives us another lefty) to a team searching for a legitimate starter (Houston, Dodgers, Toronto, Yankees, Royals, Red Sox, Cubs, Rangers) for a impact bat (LF/3B/C) whether it be another MLB player with multiple years of control or prospect that's close to being MLB ready.

*Let me state that I really like Alex as a pitcher and think he has a very bright future at the highest level but this is all about capitalizing on a weak market of CONTROLLABLE starting pitching.

Using the teams I mentioned above here are some possible deals that would entice me..

Houston Astros- (can we get Gattis back haha) Alex Wood for Brett Phillips, J.D Davis, and Reymin Guduan

LA Dodgers- Alex Wood for Alex Guerrero and Grant Holmes

Toronto Blue Jays- Alex Wood, Todd Cunningham and Jim Johnson for Jeff Hoffman, Max Pentecost, Robert Osuna, and Mitch Nay

New York Yankees- Alex Wood, Daniel Castro and Ryan Kelly for Aaron Judge and Gary Sanchez

Kansas City Royals- Alex Wood and Todd Cunningham for Greg Holland (by agreeing to an extension of something like 3yrs/$30-35million that starts next year) and Miguel Almonte

Boston Red Sox- Alex Wood and Jason Hursh for Rafael Devers and Jackie Bradley Jr.

Chicago Cubs- Alex Wood and Todd Cunningham for Duane Underwood, Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease

Texas Rangers- Alex Wood, Daniel Castro and Mauricio Cabrera for Lewis Brinson, Travis Demeritte and Jurickson Profar

Again this is just an outside the box idea with some names that I think could help us in the near future.

What's your thoughts??
 
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Trading a controllable pitcher like Alex does make some sense, especially if he is paired with another piece like JJ or Uribe to bring back a very strong return. The specific names you listed might not be realistic, for example Judge is all but untouchable, but the idea is sound. In fact, if the plan is to sign a pitcher like Price, the Braves will almost have to trade at least one MLB-ready starting pitcher.

I sincerely doubt they plan to spend big on pitching a year after they just blew up the roster to stock up on arms, but the idea in general has some plausibility.
 
Enscheff said:
Trading a controllable pitcher like Alex does make some sense, especially if he is paired with another piece like JJ or Uribe to bring back a very strong return. The specific names you listed might not be realistic, for example Judge is all but untouchable, but the idea is sound. In fact, if the plan is to sign a pitcher like Price, the Braves will almost have to trade at least one MLB-ready starting pitcher.

I sincerely doubt they plan to spend big on pitching a year after they just blew up the roster to stock up on arms, but the idea in general has some plausibility.
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That was my thinking on teams like Toronto that are in the market for both. It's hard to judge how teams value Alex but Klaw had him as one of his Top 25 under 25 and he's proven to be a # 2/3/4 type starter depending on the teams current rotation.
 
blueagleace1 said:
LA Dodgers- Alex Wood for Alex Guerrero and Grant Holmes
What's your thoughts??
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I like the general idea on this one, but I'd probably want a bit more for Wood than that. I'd probably try to expand the trade and have it be Wood and JJ for Scott Schebler, Alex Guerrero, Austin Barnes, and either Grant Holmes or Jose De Leon.
 
I am truly "on board" with the strategy but think that the proposed trades above overvalue Wood a bit. He IS left handed, controllable, cheap and has a history of success. However, he probably has a ceiling of a #2 at best with solid #3 being more likely.

Miller OTOH is more valuable and would bring back more IMO.

I am on record as advocating trading BOTH Miller and Wood for as much talent (hopefully power OF, 3B and C) as can be brought back then using the cash available this winter to sign a TOR starter and a near TOR starter like Price and Zimmerman. Then you fill in the rest of the rotation with 3 of the prospect group and/or Teheran. To me, that would be maximizing your assets.
 
I like this idea a lot. Only issue I have with your post is Guerrero from LA. I just don't know if he's as good as everyone seems to think. Plus, doesn't he have a contact that makes him a free agent the year after he is traded?

I would offer a massive proposal to Texas for Mazara this offseason, probably using a young starter as the key piece.
 
I'm on board with the idea, and though I like Alex, I guess I've always been more bearish on where he lands long-term. I'm out of my depth in judging the prospect returns, though off the top of my head they look a tad high. I know the Yanks are high on Judge, and the Sox think Devers could be a 30+ HR, +hit guy in MLB, so I doubt they'd let him go for less than a king's ransom.*

*fwiw I am a Greenville (Sox low-A) season-ticket holder and have seen Devers a lot. The only comparable hitting prospect I've seen to Devers this year is Albies, and Devers shows 400+ ft oppo power pretty regularly, so he's a different kind of hitter. Plate discipline may end up doing him in, but he's also 18 and rapidly improving. If we could get him, I'd be all over it. He's a mile ahead of Moncada right now (though he lacks Moncada's physicality and freakazoid athleticism), just as a point of reference as to how the Sox might value him.
 
CJ9 said:
I like this idea a lot. Only issue I have with your post is Guerrero from LA. I just don't know if he's as good as everyone seems to think. Plus, doesn't he have a contact that makes him a free agent the year after he is traded?
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Yeah, he does have an opt out clause, though there have been rumors that he might waive in order to move somewhere he can get a chance to start. But even then he's only signed through 2017.
 
I'm not up on trading any of the top three pitchers on the team. All three are under 25 years of age and controllable. Plus, they are all very good and should continue to get better. Since pitching is the most important aspect to winning, I keep these three and build around them.
 
I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Alex Wood right now. I mean the guy has clearly been unlucky this season. We'd be trading him low. The K rate is down, but I can't help but feel it's mostly because of his incredibly unlucky hit/9 rate.
 
I would put Simmons on the trading block if I were Hart. We have a solid 1.5 - 2 WAR 2b on the team right under control for 5 more years at a reduced salary. We have two highly rated potential SS in the minors, one who is ready to go at any time, but unfortunately is playing 2b. Could Simmons potentially get us an offensive juggernaut? I think it's possible.
 
KB21 said:
I'm not up on trading any of the top three pitchers on the team. All three are under 25 years of age and controllable. Plus, they are all very good and should continue to get better. Since pitching is the most important aspect to winning, I keep these three and build around them.
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That makes sense if there are plenty of bats to go around either through FA, through the farm or trade with other teams. But, there isn't. The Braves farm is heavy on Pitchers. The few bats are all stacked up behind positions that are already filled at the ML level. And the market is full of pitching options this offseason which diminished the trade value of Braves pitching prospects. Add to that the game has cycled to where pitching is easier to come by than good hitting and IMO it's best to get what you can (assuming the value is right) for the pitchers on hand and replace them through the FA market with the cash available.

If not, then why free the cash in the first place? Surely (hopefully) they aren't going to throw it away on the rag bats available in the FA market. And surely they aren't going to throw it away on someone else's cast-off (unless they are buying prospects as part of the deal as well).
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I am truly "on board" with the strategy but think that the proposed trades above overvalue Wood a bit. He IS left handed, controllable, cheap and has a history of success. However, he probably has a ceiling of a #2 at best with solid #3 being more likely.

Miller OTOH is more valuable and would bring back more IMO.

I am on record as advocating trading BOTH Miller and Wood for as much talent (hopefully power OF, 3B and C) as can be brought back then using the cash available this winter to sign a TOR starter and a near TOR starter like Price and Zimmerman. Then you fill in the rest of the rotation with 3 of the prospect group and/or Teheran. To me, that would be maximizing your assets.
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Astros - have already said Phillips is unavailable (even for Hamels)

Dodgers - don't personally think Wood nets you Holmes, definitely not both.

Blue Jays - Wood and Johnson MIGHT get you Hoffman or Pentecost. Cunningham has no trade value.

Yankees - Wood and Peraza might get you Judge and Sanchez.

Royals - Wood might get you Holland - he's not getting Almonte thrown in.

Red Sox - Wood might get you Bradley, but I doubt it. Can't see them moving Devers at all (maybe even for Hamels). Hursh has no trade value.

Cubs - Wood might get you Jimenez or Cease, not both. Again, Cunningham has no trade value.

Rangers - Wood might get you Profar, definitely not Profar and Brinson. Texas has more MI and RP prospects than they know what to do with - guys like Castro and Cabrera have little value.


I tend to agree that we'll see one of our young arms dealt and that we'll make a (successful) run at an "Ace" this winter, but Wood most likely nets you ONE Top 10 level prospect in return - everybody's seen what happened this year, and A. J. Prellers don't grow on trees. The above deals are more like what might be reasonable for someone like Hamels, not Alex.
 
weso1 said:
I would put Simmons on the trading block if I were Hart. We have a solid 1.5 - 2 WAR 2b on the team right under control for 5 more years at a reduced salary. We have two highly rated potential SS in the minors, one who is ready to go at any time, but unfortunately is playing 2b. Could Simmons potentially get us an offensive juggernaut? I think it's possible.
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I also agree with this to a point. If you are going to try to sign TOR starter(s) in FA then you probably need to hang on to Simmons because of his defensive value and how attractive that would be to a TOR pitcher. But, if you aren't going after FA pitching, then you MUST trade Simmons if you can bring back some bats since as you say the Braves have two players who could backfill Simmons, neither likely as good with the glove but both likely equal or better with the bat.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I also agree with this to a point. If you are going to try to sign TOR starter(s) in FA then you probably need to hang on to Simmons because of his defensive value and how attractive that would be to a TOR pitcher. But, if you aren't going after FA pitching, then you MUST trade Simmons if you can bring back some bats since as you say the Braves have two players who could backfill Simmons, neither likely as good with the glove but both likely equal or better with the bat.
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I think we need offense. I'm trying to figure out why we need a TOR starter. The Cardinals lost their TOR starter and they are in first place. We have three very solid starters right now and a plethora of options for the 4 and 5 spots. And we already have legit options for the AAAA starters which Dalyn loves. As for Simmons, I'm just giving up on him offensively. He's an incredibly weird hitter and belongs in the hall of fame, because he's so impossible to figure out as a hitter to the point that he's special. But his defense is so great that there are several good fits in regards to a potential trade. I think a very solid win/win trade is there for the taking.
 
I think at this point the Braves would be better off going for Quality rather than quantity. By quality I mean upside with some demonstration of ability. So, I wouldn't hold out for a 3 to 1 trade if the right trade came along. Some 1 to 1's I would do (but maybe the other team wouldn't) would be:

Miller to the Dodgers for Seager
Wood to the Cubs from Schwarber
Wood to the RSox for Devers
Wood to the Pirates for Meadows

Obviously, I would LIKE to get more than a 1 for 1 but would much rather have Wood for Devers than Wood for Cecchini, Deven Marrero and Sean Coyle. Those three guys are all interesting prospects and having three mitigates the risk as opposed to having one, but I like upside over safety at this point since the offseason trades have brought a certain amount of volume.
 
I'd make it a real blockbuster and make it Wood and Peraza in the same deal. We need a long term 3b, C, and lf'er. That package would definitely put a dent in it.
 
weso1 said:
I think we need offense. I'm trying to figure out why we need a TOR starter. The Cardinals lost their TOR starter and they are in first place. We have three very solid starters right now and a plethora of options for the 4 and 5 spots. And we already have legit options for the AAAA starters which Dalyn loves. As for Simmons, I'm just giving up on him offensively. He's an incredibly weird hitter and belongs in the hall of fame, because he's so impossible to figure out as a hitter to the point that he's special. But his defense is so great that there are several good fits in regards to a potential trade. I think a very solid win/win trade is there for the taking.
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I certainly don't disagree about Simmons, but still say that not moving AT LEAST ONE of the current starting veterans (Miller, Wood, Teheran) is a huge mistake since the FA market is so heavy with starters. There are a number of FA starters who are as good OR better than any the Braves have. Sure, they will cost more, at least short term, but it becomes a matter of where you want to invest your payroll. Do you invest it in a couple of veteran starters with a track record of success OR invest it with the crappy bats available on the FA market (or through trade). I say, pay the starters and use the current guys to bring in your bats.

Trade Simmons too if you like. It's certainly coming at some point. Right now you could play Jace at 2B and Peraza at ss then have a 2B decision to make if/when Albies arrives.
 
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