Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Sometimes genius falls in love with its own genius
Trade Deadline/Rumors thread
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
Sometimes genius falls in love with its own genius
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The Wainwright and Tex deals were more damaging to this franchise than anything Wren did. It is not even close.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Veteran leadership.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
It's hard to say most damaging. Sometimes it's the trade that appears to go right that actually ends up being damaging. I give you the Denny Neagle trade as an example.
The Braves traded Corey Pointer (not much), Ron Wright (one of the top 1B prospects in baseball at the time who's career was cut short because of back problems) and Jason Schmidt to the Pirates for Neagle.
Then they re-signed Neagle (after all you just traded away a ton to get him) which led to a budget problem which led to the Spring Training trade of Marquis Grissom and David Justice to Cleveland for Kenny Lofton and Alan Embree. Embree was serviceable but Lofton was a headcase with Atlanta clashed with Cox and was gone after a year via FA. Meanwhile the Braves felt the need to get more athleticism and LH power in RF and traded a young Jermaine Dye for Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart.
Ultimately Neagle wore out his welcome and was traded to Cincy for Mike Remlinger and Brett Boone.
A led to B which led to C&D. On the surface the trade looks ok but if you dig underneath....
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
Jon Morosi @jonmorosi 50s51 seconds ago
#Nationals have had trade talks with the #Phillies about Jonathan Papelbon, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. @FOXSports
#Nationals have had trade talks with the #Phillies about Jonathan Papelbon, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. @FOXSports
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 16m16 minutes ago
Source: #Astros scouting Hamels tomorrow at Wrigley. Staying on periphery, knowing that not many teams can offer what #Phillies want.
Source: #Astros scouting Hamels tomorrow at Wrigley. Staying on periphery, knowing that not many teams can offer what #Phillies want.
striker42
Well-known member
Wasn't talking about the most damaging moves, only the most inexplicable. Wainwright netted us a RF that was one of the best hitters in the game that season and Tex was a beast with us. Damaging in the long run but the short term benefits lets you easily understand why they were done.
Mondesi was a roll of the dice. Sometimes talented players can have a renaissance late in their career. Mondesi had gotten into great shape so he was worth the shot we took. He just didn't pan out.
Cahill was more about the draft pick than anything. Also, he still throws hard with movement and has had success before. It was worth a shot with the draft pick.
Albie Lopez? That's another inexplicable move. There's no justification for him.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
If the Astros pulled that off without giving up too much it would make sense for them. A move like that could set them up for a good run in the playoffs. Keuchel, Hamels and Kazmir would be a very solid top three for the playoffs.
The Neagle move was curious at the time wasn't exactly sure we needed him. Plus... A lot of people blame Cox/Wohlers for the game 4 ws loss however given a 6-0 lead we needed Neagle to go a lot further then he did in that game.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I want the Phillies owner (Montgomery?) to show up at the office, put a gun to Ruben's head, and tell him, "Pick up the phone and deal Hamels in the next ten minutes or you're dead."
If I ever disagree or get frustrated with Hart, or Wren before, I just need to thank God no one in Atlanta has ever thought, "Ruben Amaro. That's it. He's the Total Package."
If I ever disagree or get frustrated with Hart, or Wren before, I just need to thank God no one in Atlanta has ever thought, "Ruben Amaro. That's it. He's the Total Package."
striker42
Well-known member
Well, I say the last thing I want from trades right now are guys that top out as back end of the rotation types and Hart immediately deals for two of them.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
And if Belliard doesn't get handcuffed on a sure DP ball that only netted a force out, we're out of that inning before Leyritz comes to the plate.
Horsehide Harry, I totally agree on the Neagle deal and the ripple effects. I actually saw Ron Wright play once. Harmon Killebrew redux. Short, barrel-chested kid with blacksmith forearms.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Pap said he'd only waive his NTC if he's the closer.
sturg33
I
good thing we're stock piling a bunch of potatoes
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
The Neagle trade was the end of the High Water mark for the Braves. It directly led to the loss of Schmidt, the trade of Justice and Grissom, and the trade of Jermaine Dye. IMO, Neagle was added because Mazzone was coasting by then and didn't want to deal with non veteran pitchers. The sad thing was that Schmidt was just starting to come around and actually pitched better than Neagle the rest of the year. In Neagle's defense, he did have a good full year for the Braves and Schmidt continued to develop in Pittsburgh before becoming one of the better pitchers in the league for a few years.
Can you imagine: Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schmidt & Millwood as a rotation rounding in to 2000?
Can you imagine an outfield with a renewed Justice in RF and a young Jermaine Dye in LF while Grissom winds down his career in CF?
Of course the Braves would have had to fill the holes created by not having Lockhart and/or Boone at 2B and Embree and Remlinger in the pen.
But, I think its easy to see that the Neagle trade, while on the surface a success, set the stage for a whole lot of bad...
keithlaw
Playing the Waiting Game
Too bad there aren't any Irish GMs