Around Baseball 2015 Edition

auyushu said:
You are vastly overestimating the amount of money we will have to spend this offseason after trading for Bourn and Swisher if you think we are making that many moves. I'd like to see us go after a good FA pitcher this offseason (and before the Bourn trade I figured we would), but I doubt our ability to sign anyone worth it since the FO obviously is clearly money with 2017 in mind.
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Even after Bourne and Swisher we should still have over 20+ million to spend. And again, we don't know what the actual payroll is, so it could be even more than that. And who says we couldn't back load a contract?

Regardless, we don't have to pick from the top shelf starters. We could pick up someone like Leake or Kazmir for significantly less than the top shelf pitchers.
 
auyushu said:
We are currently at 82 mil only including Swisher, Bourn, Freeman, Olivera, Markakis, Quentin's buyout, Maybin, Grilli, Simba, Julio, and the imaginary Toscano.

Add in the 10 mil we got back in the Bourn deal and we are at 72 mil. Factor in resigning AJ and Shelby's first year of Arb and we are back at 80 mil. Once you add in our team control players we will have around 20 mil (or a little less) to spend, assuming our budget stays in the same ballpark as this year.
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Your math matches mine. We have 15-20M to play with after the Swisher-Bourn-CJ deal. With that money we have to get a catcher. Which optimistically will leave 10-15M. Then one or two guys for the bench and pen. So maybe we have about 10M to play with. If we bring back Minor, about 5M to play with.
 
Heyward said:
Bowman said a few days ago we'll be around 110-120 mil so.

I guess you know more than him.
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Well, I'll believe 120 mil when I see it, yes. Once we move into the new park sure, I can see us getting 120 mil. But I don't see Liberty opening the purse strings that much coming off a season with extremely poor attendance. 110 mil maybe, that's only 4-5 mil than we have locked up this season. But that would only be 20-25ish mil to play with, not 30-40.
 
auyushu said:
Well, I'll believe 120 mil when I see it, yes. Once we move into the new park sure, I can see us getting 120 mil. But I don't see Liberty opening the purse strings that much coming off a season with extremely poor attendance. 110 mil maybe, that's only 4-5 mil than we have locked up this season. But that would only be 20-25ish mil to play with, not 30-40.
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They could trade someone like Maybin to free up some dollars, and/or backload a deal if need be.

Are you factoring in the 10 mil Cle is sending the Braves or no?
 
nsacpi said:
Your math matches mine. We have 15-20M to play with after the Swisher-Bourn-CJ deal. With that money we have to get a catcher. Which optimistically will leave 10-15M. Then one or two guys for the bench and pen. So maybe we have about 10M to play with. If we bring back Minor, about 5M to play with.
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Yep, pretty much how I see it. Once we fill in the blanks at 2-3 mil a pop here and there we aren't going to have money for a big signing.
 
Heyward said:
They could trade someone like Maybin to free up some dollars, and/or backload a deal if need be.
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We would then have to replace Maybin, and Bourn can't straight up replace him because we have to ensure that he and Swisher do not hit their minimum ABs for their 2017 contracts to kick in. I mean, I'd be fine with having a scrub out there and getting a high draft pick again, but this whole discussion has been about competing in 2016, and moving Maybin to replace him with Bourn isn't exactly going to lead to that.
 
auyushu said:
We would then have to replace Maybin, and Bourn can't straight up replace him because we have to ensure that he and Swisher do not hit their minimum ABs for their 2017 contracts to kick in. I mean, I'd be fine with having a scrub out there and getting a high draft pick again, but this whole discussion has been about competing in 2016, and moving Maybin to replace him with Bourn isn't exactly going to lead to that.
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Well it's probably one or the other.

Not really sure you can have both of Maybin, Bourn on the same team.

Especially if you have Swisher on the bench if he isnt released.

If we're as tight on money as you say, probably gotta deal Maybin this winter for some extra money.
 
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auyushu said:
Well, I'll believe 120 mil when I see it, yes. Once we move into the new park sure, I can see us getting 120 mil. But I don't see Liberty opening the purse strings that much coming off a season with extremely poor attendance. 110 mil maybe, that's only 4-5 mil than we have locked up this season. But that would only be 20-25ish mil to play with, not 30-40.
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Every team spends more money leading up to the opening of a new park. No reason to not expect payroll to go up.
 
[QUOTE/]I really have no idea what discussion you're in the middle of. I'm specifically talking only of next year because that's what thethe said.[/QUOTE]

Okay. I'll say it again. I think good FA pitchers will consider signing with the Braves for next year. The reason they will consider the Braves next year is because the future is bright. If you don't want to consider Fried and Touki because they won't be ready next year... fine. My point is that really good pitchers are signing for more than one year. They will still be here in 2017 when the Braves expect to be competitive. That coupled with expected improvement from very talented young guys provides a real possibility that the pitching will be better next year.
 
Carp said:
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Every team spends more money leading up to the opening of a new park. No reason to not expect payroll to go up.
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No reason except for the fact the trade we just made seems to say we won't be spending money this offseason but rather next offseason. Really no reason to add 11 mil in salary for 2016 for two bad players if you are planning on spending for 2016. Maybe Liberty bumps our payroll to 120 this offseason, but I would be surprised based on what they have done as owners so far. I'd be happy to see it for sure though.
 
Jays just 2.5 out, 4 in the L column though, huge swing game Sunday, Jays can gain 3 games or just 1.
 
Heyward said:
Well it's probably one or the other.

Not really sure you can have both of Maybin, Bourn on the same team.

Especially if you have Swisher on the bench if he isnt released.

If we're as tight on money as you say, probably gotta deal Maybin this winter for some extra money.
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We aren't tight in money as far as putting a team on the field, we are tight in money if people expect some big signings and fielding a playoff caliber team in 2016 though. And this last trade pretty much was a sign to me that the FO isn't planning on that. Wouldn't surprise me to see Maybin traded this offseason, though I wish they would have done it before the deadline when his value was peak if they wind up trading him. But I could also see a three way platoon in CF and LF between Bourn, Swisher, and Maybin.

And to answer your earlier question, yes nsacpi and I are including the 10 mil from the Indians in our calculations, otherwise we'd have 10 mil or less to spend on a 110ish mil payroll.
 
auyushu said:
We aren't tight in money as far as putting a team on the field, we are tight in money if people expect some big signings and fielding a playoff caliber team in 2016 though. And this last trade pretty much was a sign to me that the FO isn't planning on that. Wouldn't surprise me to see Maybin traded this offseason, though I wish they would have done it before the deadline when his value was peak if they wind up trading him. But I could also see a three way platoon in CF and LF between Bourn, Swisher, and Maybin.

And to answer your earlier question, yes nsacpi and I are including the 10 mil from the Indians in our calculations, otherwise we'd have 10 mil or less to spend on a 110ish mil payroll.
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Im not expecting a Price, Greinke, Heyward, Cespedes, etc type signing.

But a couple signings below that tier are more than possible.
 
auyushu said:
No reason except for the fact the trade we just made seems to say we won't be spending money this offseason but rather next offseason. Really no reason to add 11 mil in salary for 2016 for two bad players if you are planning on spending for 2016. Maybe Liberty bumps our payroll to 120 this offseason, but I would be surprised based on what they have done as owners so far. I'd be happy to see it for sure though.
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We literally have no idea what they plan on doing with Swisher and Bourn. They could plan on moving them in other trades or just cutting them completely. And looks like they are actually getting back closer to 15 million in cash.
 
Carp said:
They could plan on moving them in other trades or just cutting them completely. And looks like they are actually getting back closer to 15 million in cash.
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Yeah, hopefully that tweet is right and we are getting another 5 mil. But what we are planning to do with Bourn and Swisher has zero bearing on us adding payroll for the 2016 season, which is not something a team does if they want to go after FA signings in 2016.

Personally I'd love to see us go out and sign Price or Kazmir to help headline our young staff going into 2017, I'm just not expecting to see it happen now.
 
Swisher: $15M
Bourn: $14M
Markakis: $10.5M
Freeman: $12M
Maybin: $8M
Olivera: $4M
Grilli: $3.5M (insurance?)
Gomes: $3M Option
Simmons: $6M
AJ: $2M resign?
Frasor: $2M Option
Teheran: $3.3M
Toscano: $1M

That's $84.3M not including any money coming back from Cleveland nor insurance on Grilli if there is any. Also it assumes Maybin is still here, that Gomes is picked up, that Frasor is picked up and that AJ is resigned. If you take Maybin, Gomes, Frasor and AJ out the number is $69.3M without regard to cash from Cleveland or Grilli insurance (if there is any).

So, it looks to me like $30M is realistic with $40 not out of the realm of possibility and $50 probably the high end assuming Liberty loosens the strings with the expected growth going into the new park.

I will say this: corporations do know the value of launching a product and brand and are usually on board with investing in that launch. I know that many Braves fans are like the dog that has been kicked one too many times so now expect to be kicked every time. However, corporations are about making money for investors. If they think the best way to do that is to invest they will.
 
auyushu said:
We aren't tight in money as far as putting a team on the field, we are tight in money if people expect some big signings and fielding a playoff caliber team in 2016 though. And this last trade pretty much was a sign to me that the FO isn't planning on that. Wouldn't surprise me to see Maybin traded this offseason, though I wish they would have done it before the deadline when his value was peak if they wind up trading him. But I could also see a three way platoon in CF and LF between Bourn, Swisher, and Maybin.

And to answer your earlier question, yes nsacpi and I are including the 10 mil from the Indians in our calculations, otherwise we'd have 10 mil or less to spend on a 110ish mil payroll.
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Add 5 mil to your calculations, looks like we'll get 15 mil from Cle, not 10.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Swisher: $15M
Bourn: $14M
Markakis: $10.5M
Freeman: $12M
Maybin: $8M
Olivera: $4M
Grilli: $3.5M (insurance?)
Gomes: $3M Option
Simmons: $6M
AJ: $2M resign?
Frasor: $2M Option
Teheran: $3.3M
Toscano: $1M

That's $84.3M not including any money coming back from Cleveland nor insurance on Grilli if there is any. Also it assumes Maybin is still here, that Gomes is picked up, that Frasor is picked up and that AJ is resigned. If you take Maybin, Gomes, Frasor and AJ out the number is $69.3M without regard to cash from Cleveland or Grilli insurance (if there is any).

So, it looks to me like $30M is realistic with $40 not out of the realm of possibility and $50 probably the high end assuming Liberty loosens the strings with the expected growth going into the new park.

I will say this: corporations do know the value of launching a product and brand and are usually on board with investing in that launch. I know that many Braves fans are like the dog that has been kicked one too many times so now expect to be kicked every time. However, corporations are about making money for investors. If they think the best way to do that is to invest they will.
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Gomes is probably as good as gone with Swisher on the team.

Frasor doesnt have an option.

Cle is sending 15 mil over so Bourn, Swisher wont cost 29 mil combined.

But yes, do think we have a little more to spend than some of the nancies say.
 
mfree80 said:
Okay. I'll say it again. I think good FA pitchers will consider signing with the Braves for next year. The reason they will consider the Braves next year is because the future is bright. If you don't want to consider Fried and Touki because they won't be ready next year... fine. My point is that really good pitchers are signing for more than one year. They will still be here in 2017 when the Braves expect to be competitive. That coupled with expected improvement from very talented young guys provides a real possibility that the pitching will be better next year.
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Yeah, you're in a different discussion. I asked specifically who we might add, what our rotation and bullpen would reasonably look like that would give us one of the best staffs in baseball...because that's what it would take.

I'm not saying it can't or won't be better. But it's going to have to be much, much better if we don't make any further improvements offensively.

Again, I'm not considering Touki or Fried because this is specifically about 2016. It's not that hard.
 
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