Peraza debuts for Dodgers

smootness said:
If that doesn't at least get you close, then the value of pitching isn't close to the value of hitting on the market...and we just added tons and tons of pitching in the hopes of using its value to add hitting. So that may not work out so well.

But I would have taken Nick Williams and another piece over Olivera.
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Agreed. Yeezus has consistently been of the opinion that Wood and Peraza would not have gotten us a lot of talented player... and that's a scary thought if true when trying to figure out where the offense will be acquired
 
No. Alex Wood has not been comparable to a guy who's thrown over 215 IP every year since 2007. Nope, he has not been. His WAR is somehow a full win higher than Shields' this year despite practically the same ERA, worse xFIP, and better FIP. Isn't WAR supposed to be not great for pitchers?

But yeah. The suggestion that Wood is comparable to Shields or Hamels (not zito, someone else) is kind of a joke. One of the biggest things a pitcher does is pitch deep into games. Shields is among the best at this, and has been remarkably consistent since 2007. Wood has a long way to go to sniff that kind of impact.
 
smootness said:
If that doesn't at least get you close, then the value of pitching isn't close to the value of hitting on the market...and we just added tons and tons of pitching in the hopes of using its value to add hitting. So that may not work out so well.
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We also had little-to-no pitching in the minors, and every team needs 5 starters (probably 7-8).
I'd rather have Olivera over Williams, personally, and I think the FO would, too. But the Rangers wanted a bona fide ace, so who knows if that offer is on the table? we have no idea where wood was valued. but i'm sure teams weren't pumped about his lost velo and worse results all-around.
 
A lot of people see a lot of value in Olivera at about $5.5MM per year. Non-Braves homers, even. So are they just delusional homers, too?
 
yeezus said:
Wood and Peraza ain't getting Moncada, by the way.
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Agreed. Barring some unforeseen change in Moncada's fortunes, there's no way the Sox would trade him for just Wood and Peraza. He's signed to a "normal" minor league deal that will pay him 3 years at league minimum and 3 at arbitration. Boston paid $63m for the right to get him on that deal. The industry comps on Moncada's on-the-field-value are Carlos Correa and Corey Seager.
 
yeezus said:
A lot of people see a lot of value in Olivera at about $5.5MM per year. Non-Braves homers, even. So are they just delusional homers, too?
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Can you send me anyone who is calling this trade a win for the Braves?

Olivera at $5.5M is fine. The issue is, he's not a prospect, so we're paying for two of those years before we really need them. So then we have to hope that he is productive at 32 onward, and he's already an injury nightmare.

Additionally - Olivera at $5.5M is a fine deal. But we paid Wood and Peraza too.
 
dak said:
Agreed. Barring some unforeseen change in Moncada's fortunes, there's no way the Sox would trade him for just Wood and Peraza. He's signed to a "normal" minor league deal that will pay him 3 years at league minimum and 3 at arbitration. Boston paid $63m for the right to get him on that deal. The industry comps on Moncada's on-the-field-value are Carlos Correa and Corey Seager.
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I wasn't seriously suggesting Moncada... just syaing if we were going to trade for an unproven Cuban player, I'd have preferred it to be a young one without a horrible injury history
 
yeezus said:
A lot of people see a lot of value in Olivera at about $5.5MM per year. Non-Braves homers, even. So are they just delusional homers, too?
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I'm content to see some results before judging the deal. . . but mentioning Olivera's yearly cost without factoring in the price of his acquisition strikes me as intellectually dishonest.
 
sturg33 said:
3B is an option for us to get an impact bat. I'd like to work out something with the Rockies for McMahon... not sure where he will play bc Arenado ain't going anywhere
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I would agree with you. I'd rather have that scenario. I'm not sure I trust the Braves to go down that route, but I agree 100%.
 
Julio3000 said:
I'm content to see some results before judging the deal. . . but mentioning Olivera's yearly cost without factoring in the price of his acquisition strikes me as intellectually dishonest.
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It's not exactly the same but a comparrison could be made to the deal we made with the DBacks where they essentially traded a prospect for money.Could a similarly valued player have been had with just giving up Wood if they made more money?
 
yeezus said:
No. Alex Wood has not been comparable to a guy who's thrown over 215 IP every year since 2007. Nope, he has not been. His WAR is somehow a full win higher than Shields' this year despite practically the same ERA, worse xFIP, and better FIP. Isn't WAR supposed to be not great for pitchers?

But yeah. The suggestion that Wood is comparable to Shields or Hamels (not zito, someone else) is kind of a joke. One of the biggest things a pitcher does is pitch deep into games. Shields is among the best at this, and has been remarkably consistent since 2007. Wood has a long way to go to sniff that kind of impact.
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We're not discussing who is the better pitcher, though. We're discussing what the trade value is. Considering Wood's early success, age, and contract, I think you can make a pretty good case that he should have more trade value than James Shields.
 
yeezus said:
A lot of people see a lot of value in Olivera at about $5.5MM per year. Non-Braves homers, even. So are they just delusional homers, too?
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There is value in that contract if he is good, sure. But I don't think anyone is really taking issue with the contract. If we could have signed him for no or a small signing bonus at that contract, no one would have an issue with it.

The issues are two-fold: 1) We didn't just get him for that contract. We got him for that contract, Alex Wood, and Jose Peraza. 2) He has more value to a contending team than one in our position. The first year it looks like we'll try to compete is 2017. He'll be 32 then with 4 years left on his deal. Looking at only that, does it make a ton of sense for us to acquire a piece like that at the cost it took given where we are?
 
smootness said:
We're not discussing who is the better pitcher, though. We're discussing what the trade value is. Considering Wood's early success, age, and contract, I think you can make a pretty good case that he should have more trade value than James Shields.
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100%.

Shields just passed waivers (I think I saw that)... Wood would have never
 
sturg33 said:
I guess he wasn't good enough to unseat Justin Turner

And he's only see the field for 13 minor league games.

Just an unbelievable, and completely unnecessary risk, the FO took on this guy
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Justin Turner... you mean the guy with a .951 OPS? Quite the scrubby performance....
 
dak said:
Agreed. Barring some unforeseen change in Moncada's fortunes, there's no way the Sox would trade him for just Wood and Peraza. He's signed to a "normal" minor league deal that will pay him 3 years at league minimum and 3 at arbitration. Boston paid $63m for the right to get him on that deal. The industry comps on Moncada's on-the-field-value are Carlos Correa and Corey Seager.
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I would have taken Moncada at $63 million in a heartbeat over Olivera at a cost of $30 million, Alex Wood, and Jose Peraza.
 
striker42 said:
If he's as good and versatile as Hart thinks he is then they would have found a spot for him. Even if it was just as a super sub they would have found somewhere on the roster.

But it really wasn't being blocked that kept him in the minors. I think he was slow to start playing because of visa issues and then promptly strained his hamstring which he's been very, very slow to recover from.
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He was most certainly blocked with the log jam that the Dodgers had with Kendrick/Turner/Seager/Guerrero... hell even the guy some call the top prospect in baseball (Seager) can't even break in for his chance. I'm not a supporter of this trade for the record... I didn't like it at all, but let's not delude ourselves by saying Olivera wasn't blocked. That's ludicrous.
 
zbhargrove said:
He was most certainly blocked with the log jam that the Dodgers had with Kendrick/Turner/Seager/Guerrero... hell even the guy some call the top prospect in baseball (Seager) can't even break in for his chance. I'm not a supporter of this trade for the record... I didn't like it at all, but let's not delude ourselves by saying Olivera wasn't blocked. That's ludicrous.
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Kendrick is a FA... and they just managed to find room for Peraza
 
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