Peraza debuts for Dodgers

[smootness]

Kendrick is a 2B, bud.

Peraza is a 2B, use your head.

And yes, it's asinine to not think Olivera wasnt blocked.

Between Kendrick, Rollins, Turner, Guerrero, even Seager cant come up and play.

Seager also better not have more current value than Olivera. Seager is OPS'ing at .775 in AAA. His value is in what he can be in the future, not what he is right now. The Dodgers don't want to take a chance on a 21-year-old having immediate success when they have good major league options right now. For our sake, if Olivera is going to be a good major league option at 32, he better be one now at 30.

If Olivera can only play 3B, then refer to my post above...that reduces his value to us.

 

[Heyward]

Seager also better not have more current value than Olivera. Seager is OPS'ing at .775 in AAA. His value is in what he can be in the future, not what he is right now. The Dodgers don't want to take a chance on a 21-year-old having immediate success when they have good major league options right now. For our sake, if Olivera is going to be a good major league option at 32, he better be one now at 30.

If Olivera can only play 3B, then refer to my post above...that reduces his value to us.

How?

If he can play 3B, thats fine, i guess they could put him at 2B in a couple years when someone else is ready (Riley maybe)

 

[Chico]

You're missing the point. The point is if Olivera couldn't unseat Kendrick, Turner, or Guerrero - then what the heck did we just acquire?

For the record, I'm a big fan of Turner. I would have laughed if LAD tried to trade him for the package we gave up for Olivera.

Seager could not unseat Rollins either. So is Rollins better than Seager?

 

[smootness]

This is where we disagree. You think those two future assets are worth 68 million and I do not. So we'll end it with this that you're fine with....... 'My opinion is that I'd rather spend on Olivera and use the savings in cost elsewhere.

Ok, but savings is still not value. You tried to argue that we saved an additional $68 million in value on Olivera's contract. In reality, we only saved $30 million and only about $10 million compared to what we were willing to offer him.

Do you think you can find a pitcher like Wood and a prospect like Peraza on the open market for $30 million over 5 years?

 

[smootness]

How?

If he can play 3B, thats fine, i guess they could put him at 2B in a couple years when someone else is ready (Riley maybe)

So he's not a 2B now, but he will be at 32 or 33? Because if he can play 2B now, then he was indeed blocked by Kendrick...something you argued against.

 

[Chico]

Ok, but savings is still not value. You tried to argue that we saved an additional $68 million in value on Olivera's contract. In reality, we only saved $30 million and only about $10 million compared to what we were willing to offer him.

Do you think you can find a pitcher like Wood and a prospect like Peraza on the open market for $30 million over 5 years?

LOL...This could go on for days with me asking you if you think Wood/Peraza are worth $76M. You're obviously way more adamant about your position, so you win.

 

[smootness]

A .296 AVG, 124 hits, 20 doubles, 9 HR's, 49 RBI's, .341 OBP with great defense is merely decent, LOL.

He's on pace for a 290ish AVG, 35-40 doubles, 17-20 HR's, 70 RBI's with great defense, thats merely decent, trying to say the trade sucks, at least get your facts straight.

Dude, Kendrick has been pretty well below-average defensively this year. He was never great; he has been good at times in the past, but he's now 31 and is not giving you anything defensively.

He is hitting .296, yes. But he is on pace for 13-14 HR and about 30 2B. There's a pretty easy way to measure power...ISO. His ISO this year is about .120. Ok for a middle infielder but nothing great. He has an OBP of .341. He has been a pretty good offensive player and a below-average defensive one. So yes, decent.

 

[smootness]

LOL...This could go on for days with me asking you if you think Wood/Peraza are worth $76M. You're obviously way more adamant about your position, so you win.

I'm saying that even using your flawed logic, I would disagree. But at least at that point, it would be a discussion.

But the main point is that the $76 million number is something you completely made up. Using what his actual value on the market is, we saved $30 million on Olivera, nothing close to $68 million. So the number is actually $38 million, not $76.

And we're talking over 5 years. Obviously no one would suggest spending $76 million/year on Wood and Peraza. But over 5-6 years?

Shields got a 4-year, $75 million deal this past offseason. Shields has supplied a little more value than Wood recently because of the innings, but based on their relative ages, I think assigning a similar value to Wood is fair. So you've already basically doubled the $38 million mark with one fewer year and without Peraza.

 

[Heyward]

So he's not a 2B now, but he will be at 32 or 33? Because if he can play 2B now, then he was indeed blocked by Kendrick...something you argued against.

He'll probably be 3B or LF, and yes, regardless if he can play 2B or not, he was blocked by Howie.

 

[Heyward]

Dude, Kendrick has been pretty well below-average defensively this year. He was never great; he has been good at times in the past, but he's now 31 and is not giving you anything defensively.

He is hitting .296, yes. But he is on pace for 13-14 HR and about 30 2B. There's a pretty easy way to measure power...ISO. His ISO this year is about .120. Ok for a middle infielder but nothing great. He has an OBP of .341. He has been a pretty good offensive player and a below-average defensive one. So yes, decent.

Dodgers have been one of the best defensive teams in baseball this year, a large part of that is due to the defense of Rollins and Kendrick, so you're wrong there.

Kendrick has always been a pretty good defender.

 

[smootness]

He'll probably be 3B or LF, and yes, regardless if he can play 2B or not, he was blocked by Howie.

Well, when I suggested that Kendrick might be blocking Olivera, you said: 'Kendrick is a 2B, bud.'

So...thanks for that, I guess. Since you ultimately agree.

And with regard to Wood vs. Shields, by suggesting that Wood has more value than Shields due to age and contract, you were actually agreeing with sturg...while attempting to disagree.

Maybe you should just sit this thread out.

 

[smootness]

Dodgers have been one of the best defensive teams in baseball this year, a large part of that is due to the defense of Rollins and Kendrick, so you're wrong there.

Kendrick has always been a pretty good defender.

No, a large part of that this year is not due to Kendrick. Sorry.

Yes, he has been pretty good in the past. Never great, which you initially argued, but pretty good. This year, he has been bad.

Also, and this is unrelated to the main point, but it hasn't been due to Rollins, either. In fact, where are you getting your information that they've been one of the best defensive teams in baseball?

Here's what I'm showing: Scott Van Slyke, AJ Ellis, Justin Turner as above-average. Adrian Gonzalez, Puig, Pederson, Rollins as about average. Ethier, Grandal, Kendrick, and Crawford as below-average. Kendrick is rated as their worst so far this year.

 

[Heyward]

Well, when I suggested that Kendrick might be blocking Olivera, you said: 'Kendrick is a 2B, bud.'

So...thanks for that, I guess. Since you ultimately agree.

And with regard to Wood vs. Shields, by suggesting that Wood has more value than Shields due to age and contract, you were actually agreeing with sturg...while attempting to disagree.

Maybe you should just sit this thread out.

I said if they were the same age with same contract, keep up.

Keep writing your novel posts.

 

[Heyward]

No, a large part of that this year is not due to Kendrick. Sorry.

Yes, he has been pretty good in the past. Never great, which you initially argued, but pretty good. This year, he has been bad.

Also, and this is unrelated to the main point, but it hasn't been due to Rollins, either. In fact, where are you getting your information that they've been one of the best defensive teams in baseball?

Here's what I'm showing: Scott Van Slyke, AJ Ellis, Justin Turner as above-average. Adrian Gonzalez, Puig, Pederson, Rollins as about average. Ethier, Grandal, Kendrick, and Crawford as below-average. Kendrick is rated as their worst so far this year.

Least amount of errors, not a great stat mind you.

But overall they're pretty solid defensively.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/fielding/year/2015/seasontype/2/league/nl

 

[sturg33]

I said if they were the same age with same contract, keep up.

Keep writing your novel posts.

You need to keep up. Yeezus (i think) made the statement that wood was not as good as Shields.

We were simply arguing that Wood has WAY more trade value than Shields... and most other pitchers in the league

 

[sturg33]

Least amount of errors, not a great stat mind you.

But overall they're pretty solid defensively.

lol

 

[Heyward]

lol

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/fielding/year/2015/seasontype/2/league/nl

 

[Heyward]

You need to keep up. Yeezus (i think) made the statement that wood was not as good as Shields.

We were simply arguing that Wood has WAY more trade value than Shields... and most other pitchers in the league

Wood doesnt go as deep into games as Shields does.

It's a fair argument.

Shields has posted 8 straight years of 200+ IP, but yes, Wood who hasnt done that ONCE is better.

 

[smootness]

I said if they were the same age with same contract, keep up.

Keep writing your novel posts.

You continue to agree while believing you are disagreeing. You said Wood would not have passed through waivers because he is younger and has a far cheaper contract. That's exactly the argument me and sturg made.

I said 'due to age and contract' in the very post you quoted. Good grief, man.

 

[smootness]

Wood doesnt go as deep into games as Shields does.

It's a fair argument.

Shields has posted 8 straight years of 200+ IP, but yes, Wood who hasnt done that ONCE is better.

So are you now arguing they have similar value? Because that's not what you argued initially. I'm just trying to find out what your actual positions are.

You seemed pretty adamant that Kendrick could not be blocking Olivera because Kendrick is a 2B...but then argued that of course Kendrick is blocking Olivera because Olivera can play 2B now and will still be able to a few years down the line.

You also seemed pretty clear that comparing Woods to Shields is absurd because Wood clearly has more current value due to age and contract...but now seem to be suggesting that, actually, it's a fair argument that they have a similar value.

You're weird, man. But thanks for the sarcasm and 'tude while switching positions and agreeing. You do you.