Oh Fredi haters.?

clvclv said:
I seem to recall that as well - don't have a direct link handy at the moment though.
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I remember seeing Hart say that in a MLBTV interview.

I think we could have won it with our team. That said 2016 would look really DARK. B/c I think we'd be getting a draft pick for JUp, Heyward, and we'd still have BJ. B/c I do think we'd be in it and they would not have the stones to trade JUP and Heyward at the deadline.

Freddie is not good at anything tangible. I would love for Hart to mention any criteria on which he is evaluated.
 
sturg33 said:
They won the division and played in the LDS in 2013 - just one year prior. And were a boneheaded manager mistake away from beating Kershaw and going to game 5 at home
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2013 Braves Playoff Rotation:

Minor - 13-9, 204.2 IP, 3.21 ERA (3.37 FIP), 1.09 WHIP, 181/46 K/BB, 117 ERA+

Medlen - 15-12, 197 IP, 3.11 ERA (3.48 FIP), 1.22 WHIP, 157/47 K/BB, 121 ERA+

Teheran - 14-8, 185.2 IP, 3.20 ERA (3.69 FIP), 1.17 WHIP, 170/45 K/BB, 117 ERA+

Huddy - 8-7, 131.1 IP, 3.97 ERA (3.46 FIP), 1.19 WHIP, 95/36 K/BB, 94 ERA+

2015 Braves Playoff Rotation If The Team Had Been Kept Together:

Wood - 7-6, 119.1 IP, 3.54 ERA (3.42 FIP), 1.41 WHIP, 90/36 K/BB, 107 ERA+

Teheran - 7-6, 138 IP, 4.57 ERA (4.37 FIP), 1.37 WHIP, 116/50 K/BB, 83 ERA+

Santana - 2-3, 41.2 IP, 5.40 ERA (5.52 FIP), 1.44 WHIP, 27/16 K/BB, 76 ERA+

Harang - 5-13, 121.1 IP, 4.52 ERA (4.33 FIP), 1.37 WHIP, 81/34 K/BB, 84 ERA+

Not only would J-Up, Heyward, Gattis, and Freeman have to have career years to overcome that rotation just to make the playoffs with CJ at 3B and B. J./Melvin in CF, Freeman couldn't have missed an AB.
 
clvclv said:
2013 Braves Playoff Rotation:

Minor - 13-9, 204.2 IP, 3.21 ERA (3.37 FIP), 1.09 WHIP, 181/46 K/BB, 117 ERA+
Medlen - 15-12, 197 IP, 3.11 ERA (3.48 FIP), 1.22 WHIP, 157/47 K/BB, 121 ERA+
Teheran - 14-8, 185.2 IP, 3.20 ERA (3.69 FIP), 1.17 WHIP, 170/45 K/BB, 117 ERA+
Huddy - 8-7, 131.1 IP, 3.97 ERA (3.46 FIP), 1.19 WHIP, 95/36 K/BB, 94 ERA+

2015 Braves Playoff Rotation If The Team Had Been Kept Together:

Wood - 7-6, 119.1 IP, 3.54 ERA (3.42 FIP), 1.41 WHIP, 90/36 K/BB, 107 ERA+
Teheran - 7-6, 138 IP, 4.57 ERA (4.37 FIP), 1.37 WHIP, 116/50 K/BB, 83 ERA+
Santana - 2-3, 41.2 IP, 5.40 ERA (5.52 FIP), 1.44 WHIP, 27/16 K/BB, 76 ERA+
Harang - 5-13, 121.1 IP, 4.52 ERA (4.33 FIP), 1.37 WHIP, 81/34 K/BB, 84 ERA+

Not only would J-Up, Heyward, Gattis, and Freeman have to have career years to overcome that rotation just to make the playoffs with CJ at 3B and B. J./Melvin in CF, Freeman couldn't have missed an AB.
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Just saying - your statement was wrong.
 
clvclv said:
As was your earlier one about how that team would've been a contender if it was kept together.

The difference is I chose not to troll you with it.
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I disagree. Keep the good players. Dump BJ and and CJ and we got a nice little unit.

Maybin was DFA'd... we could have had him for free.

The Uribe deal could have still happened.

The Kimbrel deal could have still happened.

A creative GM could have kept what work and improved what didn't. What didn't work were BJ, Uggla, and CJ.

Just saying - not everything would have worked perfectly, but are you trying to tell me that the roster we had couldn't have won 86 games with a few tweaks and a pitcher or two?

I ain't buying it.

No point in going through this over and over again. But the decision to punt was not one that I agreed with. And before everyone says "BUT HEYWARD AND UPTON WERE GONE AND THEN WHAT???" I'll say we should have invested in one of them. The money from Markakis and Uggla alone was enough money.
 
sturg33 said:
I disagree. Keep the good players. 1.) Dump BJ and and CJ and we got a nice little unit.

2.) Maybin was DFA'd... we could have had him for free.

3.) The Uribe deal could have still happened.

The Kimbrel deal could have still happened.

A creative GM could have kept what work and improved what didn't. What didn't work were BJ, Uggla, and CJ.

Just saying - not everything would have worked perfectly, but are you trying to tell me that the roster we had couldn't have won 86 games with a few tweaks and a pitcher or two?

I ain't buying it.

No point in going through this over and over again. But the decision to punt was not one that I agreed with. And before everyone says "BUT HEYWARD AND UPTON WERE GONE AND THEN WHAT???" I'll say we should have invested in one of them. 4.) The money from Markakis and Uggla alone was enough money.
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1.) On who? Without attaching them to Kimbrel, J-Up, Heyward, or Gattis or taking two bad contracts back, that is.

2.) How do you propose to pay his salary with CJ, B. J., and Uggla on the books?

3.) See above.

4.) Best one yet. Claiming Maybin costs you $7 million of the $11 million spent on Markakis. Re-signing Harang would cost you the other $4 million of that. Exactly who could you have traded to the Dodgers to get Uribe AND pay his salary? Remember, THEY made the deal for Callaspo to cut costs - not the other way around.
 
clvclv said:
1.) On who? Without attaching them to Kimbrel, J-Up, Heyward, or Gattis or taking two bad contracts back, that is.

2.) How do you propose to pay his salary with CJ, B. J., and Uggla on the books?

3.) See above.

4.) Best one yet. Claiming Maybin costs you $7 million of the $11 million spent on Markakis. Re-signing Harang would cost you the other $4 million of that. Exactly who could you have traded to the Dodgers to get Uribe AND pay his salary? Remember, THEY made the deal for Callaspo to cut costs - not the other way around.
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1. Uggla was already gone. CJ was dumped/benched anyways. BJ was dumped on the Padres. Like I said - I'd have made that Kimbrel trade regardless.

2. He was DFAd... meaning the Padres were on the hook or had zero leverage to dump the salary. Additionally - like I said - I'd have been fine with the Kimbrel trade regardless

3. The Uribe deal was not some massive contract absorption - so not sure what you're talking about

4. Maybin was DFAd. He would have been free. Or we make the Kimbrel trade. Or we get someone else. This isn't that hard man.

Don't sign Markakis. Make the Kimbrel trade. Don't trade for Trevor freakin Cahill. And our financial flexability would have been quite good.

Obviously - this is easy to say in hindsight. But the point is, a really good roster could have been put together in a really week division.
 
sturg33 said:
1. Uggla was already gone. CJ was dumped/benched anyways. BJ was dumped on the Padres. Like I said - I'd have made that Kimbrel trade regardless.

2. He was DFAd... meaning the Padres were on the hook or had zero leverage to dump the salary. Additionally - like I said - I'd have been fine with the Kimbrel trade regardless

3. The Uribe deal was not some massive contract absorption - so not sure what you're talking about

4. Maybin was DFAd. He would have been free. Or we make the Kimbrel trade. Or we get someone else. This isn't that hard man.

Don't sign Markakis. Make the Kimbrel trade. Don't trade for Trevor freakin Cahill. And our financial flexability would have been quite good.

Obviously - this is easy to say in hindsight. But the point is, a really good roster could have been put together in a really week division.
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Make it work for $112,008,731 before saying it's easy. That's what the Opening Day salaries were in 2014.

Don't just say it - show me how.

Opening Day 2015 payroll was down to $97,086,461 WITH CJ (and Markakis) on the books.

"Maybin was DFAd. He would have been free. Or we make the Kimbrel trade. Or we get someone else. This isn't that hard man." -

Show us all how "easy" it is to just "go get someone else". But INCLUDE salaries when you do - not just ideas. When you can do that, I guarantee you everybody will be impressed. Don't forget the $3,550,000 in raises that Heyward and Justin were due while you're doing your math.
 
clvclv said:
Make it work for $112,008,731 before saying it's easy. That's what the Opening Day salaries were in 2014.

Don't just say it - show me how.

Opening Day 2015 payroll was down to $97,086,461 WITH CJ (and Markakis) on the books.

"Maybin was DFAd. He would have been free. Or we make the Kimbrel trade. Or we get someone else. This isn't that hard man." -

Show us all how "easy" it is to just "go get someone else". But INCLUDE salaries when you do - not just ideas. When you can do that, I guarantee you everybody will be impressed. Don't forget the $3,550,000 in raises that Heyward and Justin were due while you're doing your math.
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I really don't care to.

Not worth the time or the effort. Point is - if we wanted to, we could have competed. We punted. That's fine... Many agree with it. I don't.

I don't agree with trading away as much young talent as we have (Heyward, Upton, Wood, Kimbrel, Peraza).
 
sturg33 said:
I really don't care to.

Not worth the time or the effort. Point is - if we wanted to, we could have competed. We punted. That's fine... Many agree with it. I don't.

I don't agree with trading away as much young talent as we have (Heyward, Upton, Wood, Kimbrel, Peraza).
Click to expand...

Exactly. That would require thought rather than just *itching.
 
sturg33 said:
Also - Maybin ranks 24th out of 25 qualified players for WAR at CF.
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Yeah. Maybin started the year (like so many on the team) on fire and was playing well above their heads. He has totally regressed to the player that got DFAed in the first place He's at a 97 WRC+ and that's falling fast. His WAR is 0.7 due to bad defense. Funny enough BJ was wort 0.3 WAR last year and is at 0.5 WAR this year in half the game Maybin has played. Maybin has been no big upgrade over BJ. I always found the idea that Maybin had finally found it funny. Nothing has changed. We should have sold high on him when we had the chance. Sometimes people get so wrapped up in players doing well in a SSS.

Also of note is the Braves were 2nd to last in CF last year at 0.3. Braves are once again 2nd to last in CF this year with 0.1 WAR. Somehow last year CF was overall better than this year. lol
 
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