sturg33
I
Seems like the only teams willing to trade impact position players is Atlanta
Simmons dealt to Angels for two top pitchers, Aybar
- Thread starter Oklahomabrave
- Start date
Seems like the only teams willing to trade impact position players is Atlanta
sturg33
I
At least they spent most of the offseason trying to leverage other teams and get the best possible deal... I'm just happy they didn't rush to make a deal
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
Agree. But I like the idea. Maybe you trade the Ruiz so they still have a back up plan at 3b if we can lower the quality of pitcher we need to send back.
But the folks in charge like their guys. So Riley and Ruiz are prob penciled in at 3b
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Without going into great detail (will be glad to elaborate later), I calculate Simmons' expected surplus value for the life of his contract at 6-7 WAR. Various studies that have evaluated the surplus value of prospects suggest the expected surplus value of what we are getting back is in a similar range. Of course the way in which this surplus value is likely to be distributed by year differs quite a bit on the two sides of the deal, which is why both teams found it in their interest to do the deal. There is more upside (and uncertainty) with what we are getting back (basically Newcomb). His control issues worry me some but in a perfect universe he could end up being a Randy Johnson type pitcher. The one thing that nags at me a little is I don't think Simmons is the finished product as a hitter. I've seen his hitting approach evolve quite a bit and I thought he showed some progress last year.
sturg33
I
The deal in a vacuum is fine. We're not competing for 3-4 years so might as well deal Simmons now. We got some high upside back (finally).
But the deal in context makes less sense. We are not going to spend money on offense. And we have FEW assets to trade to acquire offense. And yet, time after time, we keep using them for more pitching. The FO has gone overboard with a pitching craze.
But the deal in context makes less sense. We are not going to spend money on offense. And we have FEW assets to trade to acquire offense. And yet, time after time, we keep using them for more pitching. The FO has gone overboard with a pitching craze.
Tapate50
Well-known member
No I don't. What it seems like you mean is the only guy worth mentioning was Sean. Get real, you have no idea if that's true or not. Please don't act like its a fact.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
I heard the deal go down just before I stopped off to see Spectre, so after having a couple hours to mull over the trade (and watch Craig kick ass), I'm not overly against it.
Originally, I wanted to destroy everything in site - as did 90% of this board - but I do like what I see with both of these guys and it sounds like with Aybar, we will either get a solid SS for a year (maybe extend) or at least get something in return.
IF it was not for the Olivera trade, I am on board with all of this completely. That trade is the one thing I just don't understand... if we have Peraza and Wood still, this farm is just insane and our rotation pretty much set!
Originally, I wanted to destroy everything in site - as did 90% of this board - but I do like what I see with both of these guys and it sounds like with Aybar, we will either get a solid SS for a year (maybe extend) or at least get something in return.
IF it was not for the Olivera trade, I am on board with all of this completely. That trade is the one thing I just don't understand... if we have Peraza and Wood still, this farm is just insane and our rotation pretty much set!
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Okay but did we really lose any offense from this trade? We already have Albies who should be an offensive improvement at SS when he gets to Atlanta. The outfield corners look set for the next 3 years with Markakis and Olivera. Mallex is a quality CF prospect with significant time at AAA already. We have Maybin with a cheap option for 2015. Peterson should improve at 2B. Freeman is coming into his prime. I think Newcomb will be in our rotation before the end of the year and if he shows promise it will be easier to trade other pitching.
sturg33
I
We didn't lose an offensive, but we lost arguably our best asset to acquire any.
The only sure thing we have on offense is Freeman, and if I were him, I'd contemplate even showing up. The Braves bought out his prime years only to tear down the team to what will likely be 4-5 years of awfulness.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Wow
sturg33
I
Wow what? You think Freeman's not pissed off?
He'd have been a free agent after this upcoming miserable season. I'm sure he's regretting this extension.
bravesfanforlife88
Well-known member
I am not regretting my $130+ million
Aybar is a place holder/trade bait and Ellis is filler imo. Sean is the headliner and only player of real importance here. And the only true impact prospect we have acquired since we started unloading players.
Sure. But he would have gotten more then that and had his pick of contending teams. While it's a different FO the Braves still sold him on something that isn't the case anymore.
Did we lose offense? Not really. But as sturg said we did lose assests to acquire more hitting and also created another hole among our position players. Hopefully Albies can fill that but it's no guarantee. And even if he is a better hitter I doubt he will be a better player. 3-4 WAR players aren't that easily replaceable.
Oklahomabrave
Anytime Now Frankie...
Filler? That isn't accurate. He isn't a top 50 prospect, but dude has some value.
I'm sincerely hoping we do trade Aybar, if we get a decent return it definitely helps this trade.
I'm mostly fine with this deal. As a few others have mentioned, I'm not totally against all of this if the Olivera deal didn't happen. He's going to be 33-35 years old before we start competing. What's the point of that?
Mark Simon from ESPN tweeted something yesterday pointing out that two years ago we won 96 games with the youngest average age of position players and third youngest average age for starting pitchers. Now here we are. I guess I'm mostly just confused about how all of this happened. We went from the future looking bright two years ago while winning big to now hoping the future is bright years down the road.
Mark Simon from ESPN tweeted something yesterday pointing out that two years ago we won 96 games with the youngest average age of position players and third youngest average age for starting pitchers. Now here we are. I guess I'm mostly just confused about how all of this happened. We went from the future looking bright two years ago while winning big to now hoping the future is bright years down the road.
sturg33
I
When the Simmons rumors started, most people were in the camp of "I'm ok with trading him, as long as it's a clear win for the Braves"
I think this deal is probably a fair value... but it's not a slam dunk deal for us to have made. And we made it really early. Simmons wasn't going anywhere
I think this deal is probably a fair value... but it's not a slam dunk deal for us to have made. And we made it really early. Simmons wasn't going anywhere
The drop off from Simmons to Aybar will be like Furcal to "sure handed" Renteria and Heyward to "Good Glove" Markakis.