Freeman Trade Speculation

sturg33 said:
Agreed with others... Coppy doesn't appear to be the genius he was made out to be.

I started losing faith after the Olivera deal... and it's gotten worse since
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I'm still confused about the original basis for the belief that he is some sort of wiz.
 
thewupk said:
I think the general idea was that since he used a lot of advanced stats compared to who we had that he was a genius by default.
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That's relatively unfair. He was considered a pretty bright GM prospect by the baseball community before getting to this role.
 
Carp said:
To be fair, while Aybar isn't world beater, he could indeed be a valuable player for next year or possibly 2 years. As Weso pointed out earlier, he was actually better than Simba as recently as 2014. And it isn't like we go from an elite defensive SS to a poor defensive SS. Aybar is still pretty slick with the glove even if he isn't anywhere close to Simbas level (few actually are).
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Simmons-for-Aybar is not an improvement and certainly isn't a win-now move. That is obvious. I don't expect him to say, 'We know Aybar isn't Simmons, but we're trying to win 5 years from now.' But you can't say, 'Oh, deal with it and quit crying, you don't get it.'

You can say something like, 'We know the fan base loves Simmons, and this is always tough. We hated to have to trade him, but we feel like this move gives us a chance to continue to put a quality SS on the field while getting a potential future ace. I know losing is tough, and we're trying to fix that as well as we can, but we're going to do what it takes to build a long-lasting winner. It's tough to take right now, and we get that. Be patient, we do have a plan, and that plan is to acquire as much talent as we can.' That's not too much to ask.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm still confused about the original basis for the belief that he is some sort of wiz.
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Me too. Understanding advanced stats IS NOT the main part of his job. Communication is.

One thing you have to give JS: he never displayed anything but supreme confidence and a belief in the greatness of the organization. He could be prickly at times but he never whined.
 
Runnin said:
Me too. Understanding advanced stats IS NOT the main part of his job. Communication is.

One thing you have to give JS: he never displayed anything but supreme confidence and a belief in the greatness of the organization. He could be prickly at times but he never whined.
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Well I don't even understand where the notion comes from that JC is a stats wiz.
 
smootness said:
Simmons-for-Aybar is not an improvement and certainly isn't a win-now move. That is obvious. I don't expect him to say, 'We know Aybar isn't Simmons, but we're trying to win 5 years from now.' But you can't say, 'Oh, deal with it and quit crying, you don't get it.'

You can say something like, 'We know the fan base loves Simmons, and this is always tough. We hated to have to trade him, but we feel like this move gives us a chance to continue to put a quality SS on the field while getting a potential future ace. I know losing is tough, and we're trying to fix that as well as we can, but we're going to do what it takes to build a long-lasting winner. It's tough to take right now, and we get that. Be patient, we do have a plan, and that plan is to acquire as much talent as we can.' That's not too much to ask.
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Read between the lines what has been said about this deal by Copo. He has stated that the Braves want to sign Aybar to an extension. When the time comes to talk to him, if he's unwilling to deal, then he gets dealt. They are going to give him a chance to add a year or two (no more) to 2016, giving Albies a reasonable time frame to progress.
 
rico43 said:
Read between the lines what has been said about this deal by Copo. He has stated that the Braves want to sign Aybar to an extension. When the time comes to talk to him, if he's unwilling to deal, then he gets dealt. They are going to give him a chance to add a year or two (no more) to 2016, giving Albies a reasonable time frame to progress.
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I'm not sure what this has to do with my post. I don't care what we do with Aybar; I'd rather trade him than extend him. What I care about here is the way our FO is communicating with the fan base. They're doing a horrible job of it.
 
chop2chip said:
I don't understand why fans give a damn about the PR skills of their GM. If there ever was a position where a person should be evaluated based upon their results, that's the one.
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Public perception of the results is all that matters and that will be determined in large part by the faith the team and the fanbase has in the GM.

Knowing what to say and how to say it is something that JS and JH do about as well as anyone.
 
chop2chip said:
I don't understand why fans give a damn about the PR skills of their GM. If there ever was a position where a person should be evaluated based upon their results, that's the one.
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I only care about his public statements to the extent to which they offer some clues as to the quality of his thinking and temperament. And yes I know there is some heavy spinning going on and try to filter that out.
 
smootness said:
Simmons-for-Aybar is not an improvement and certainly isn't a win-now move. That is obvious. I don't expect him to say, 'We know Aybar isn't Simmons, but we're trying to win 5 years from now.' But you can't say, 'Oh, deal with it and quit crying, you don't get it.'

You can say something like, 'We know the fan base loves Simmons, and this is always tough. We hated to have to trade him, but we feel like this move gives us a chance to continue to put a quality SS on the field while getting a potential future ace. I know losing is tough, and we're trying to fix that as well as we can, but we're going to do what it takes to build a long-lasting winner. It's tough to take right now, and we get that. Be patient, we do have a plan, and that plan is to acquire as much talent as we can.' That's not too much to ask.
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I think the point is, Aybar shouldn't be as massive of a downgrade (based off their recent #s) that most people are suggesting. He still produced a 2.3 WAR in 2015 and will likely be better offensively than Simmons next season. He will be 32 next season, so that is a concern, but we also got back two very promising pitchers in the deal as well. Its a trade that could help out both long term and short term.
 
Carp said:
He will be 32 next season, so that is a concern, but we also got back two very promising pitchers in the deal as well.
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We do love our 30+ year olds.

Think about it, every offensive acquisition we have made is 30+ year olds...

Markakis, AJP, Olivera, and now Aybar... am I missing something?
 
Carp said:
I think the point is, Aybar shouldn't be as massive of a downgrade (based off their recent #s) that most people are suggesting. He still produced a 2.3 WAR in 2015 and will likely be better offensively than Simmons next season. He will be 32 next season, so that is a concern, but we also got back two very promising pitchers in the deal as well. Its a trade that could help out both long term and short term.
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I hope this Aybar spin is just that. Aybar is not a bad player but he is not as good as Simmons so we will be worse overall at the SS position barring the random career year. They were the same offensively in 2015 and likely will be in 2016 as well. Again I hope the talk of Aybar having that 276 career average while Simmons never hitting 276 and Aybar being an all-star a couple of years ago is just spin for the casual fan. And if it is then that's fine. I mean we heard the same lines about Markakis replacing Heyward last year.
 
thewupk said:
I hope this Aybar spin is just that. Aybar is not a bad player but he is not as good as Simmons so we will be worse overall at the SS position barring the random career year. They were the same offensively in 2015 and likely will be in 2016 as well. Again I hope the talk of Aybar having that 276 career average while Simmons never hitting 276 and Aybar being an all-star a couple of years ago is just spin for the casual fan. And if it is then that's fine. I mean we heard the same lines about Markakis replacing Heyward last year.
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I hope we trade Aybor personally. this is his only year he will be here.. We are going to stink next year. Get some value from him...
 
I don't see us trading Aybar until after the season has started. He is really the only option at the position we have until Albies is ready. Yeah you can try Garcia but really he is not an everyday option. You put Aybar out there and hope he has a good first half of the season. Trade him at the deadline and pick up prospects.
 
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