Miller market 'hot'

Hudson2 said:
Diamondbacks still goin hard after Cueto. That would be one more down if the Dbacks can sign him. Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, and Red Sox to fight it out over Greinke and Price. I hope Coppy is patient with Miller. Somebody may over pay.
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Someone WILL overpay. name all the pitchers who are:
1. solid #2 starters/boardline #1
2. young
3. Cheap
4. controllable for 3+ years
5. AVAILABLE

ready... Go....
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Someone WILL overpay. name all the pitchers who are:
1. solid #2 starters/boardline #1
2. young
3. Cheap
4. controllable for 3+ years
5. AVAILABLE

ready... Go....
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Hey, I'm down. This dude goes FA in 3 years. We won't yet be competitive. Flip him. For HITTING, dumbass (JC, that is).
 
I think the Dodgers resign Greinke and not sure about Price but the Cubs will go hard after him. So teams will probably come for Teheran to.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Hey, I'm down. This dude goes FA in 3 years. We won't yet be competitive. Flip him. For HITTING, dumbass (JC, that is).
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Maybe Matz of the Mets.. hard to say solid #2 at this point.. but I think the Mets would trade him for what the Braves are wanting in return for Miller..

I guess you could also lump Julio in that mix. although, he may fall into a solid #3/boarderline #2 based on last years results..
 
Hawk said:
I think that's a load of horse hockey personally. We're talking about professionals here that worked together on a major deal less than half a year ago.

There's just no such thing as an untouchable player -- let's throw that out of the window now.

Don't be duped into believing that Friedman wouldn't hesitate to drop either (Seager/Urias) if the right package fell into his lap. Not saying that a deal involving Miller would be enough, just making a general observation.
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That's the point - there's no one on the Braves' roster that would be part of that "right package".

Please don't preach to me about no one being untouchable. I was the first person here (and most places, really) to point out that Simmons, Teheran, and yes even Freeman could be had. Everyone here thought I was nuts.

Would Seager have been in play if the Dodgers could've gotten Simmons AND Miller? Who knows? But they wouldn't consider dealing him in a package that would involve less in return. To be honest, two of DeLeon, Verdugo, and Barnes would probably be an overpay - I just hope that they'll see the Giants' talks with Greinke, the Cubs talks with Price, and the D-Backs talks with Cueto gaining traction and panic a little.
 
clvclv said:
That's the point - there's no one on the Braves' roster that would be part of that "right package".

Please don't preach to me about no one being untouchable. I was the first person here (and most places, really) to point out that Simmons, Teheran, and yes even Freeman could be had. Everyone here thought I was nuts.

Would Seager have been in play if the Dodgers could've gotten Simmons AND Miller? Who knows? But they wouldn't consider dealing him in a package that would involve less in return. To be honest, two of DeLeon, Verdugo, and Barnes would probably be an overpay - I just hope that they'll see the Giants' talks with Greinke, the Cubs talks with Price, and the D-Backs talks with Cueto gaining traction and panic a little.
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What about a Miller and Ozzie package for Seager? Not saying I would want to.. just throwing out options.
 
clvclv said:
That's the point - there's no one on the Braves' roster that would be part of that "right package".

Please don't preach to me about no one being untouchable. I was the first person here (and most places, really) to point out that Simmons, Teheran, and yes even Freeman could be had. Everyone here thought I was nuts.

Would Seager have been in play if the Dodgers could've gotten Simmons AND Miller? Who knows? But they wouldn't consider dealing him in a package that would involve less in return. To be honest, two of DeLeon, Verdugo, and Barnes would probably be an overpay - I just hope that they'll see the Giants' talks with Greinke, the Cubs talks with Price, and the D-Backs talks with Cueto gaining traction and panic a little.
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I think it's pretty inane to make a blanket statement like there's no one on the Braves' roster that would be part of that "right" package.

You just don't know that, have no way of knowing that.

Cole Hamels is not an accurate comp here.
 
I'm glad we asked for Seager. The Dodgers would be foolish to do that trade but we should be aggressive. Miller is an excellent young pitcher that will be paid way under market value for the next three years. Getting Olivera for "under market value" was the reason we were given for why we paid so much for him. We should get the same benefit with Miller.

I have no doubt that Seager and Urias are off limits. I wouldn't trade them either. However, if they're unwilling to discuss either of those as well as Pederson then I don't see a fit with the Dodgers. De Leon is a very good prospect but I just don't know if a deal built around him is a good fit. They would have to add more and then it would really feel like taking quantity over quality.

I do agree that we should probably try to deal Miller now. His value is at its absolute peak and the money being handed to starters is insane right now. I love that we're shooting high. Some team will eventually crack if we play this right.

If by some miracle the Dodgers started to discuss Urias or Seager, then the Braves should be all over it. I don't see that happening though.
 
smootness said:
No. Absolutely not.

Let's put it this way - when Heyward was a prospect, would you have traded him for those guys? Or to take the Braves feelings out of it, would you have traded him for Brandon Crawford and Michael Wacha?
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Yes, if those were positions that we needed.
 
Hawk said:
I think it's pretty inane to make a blanket statement like there's no one on the Braves' roster that would be part of that "right" package.

You just don't know that, have no way of knowing that.

Cole Hamels is not an accurate comp here.
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Hamels is not "the comp" - simply an example of a much better Pitcher they had a chance to acquire that they wouldn't give up Seager or Urias for.

Move the goalpost all you like - name another player currently on the Braves' roster (or in the minors) you'd take with Miller for Seager. I can't.
 
clvclv said:
Hamels is not "the comp" - simply an example of a much better Pitcher they had a chance to acquire that they wouldn't give up Seager or Urias for.

Move the goalpost all you like - name another player currently on the Braves' roster (or in the minors) you'd take with Miller for Seager. I can't.
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It doesn't matter what YOU would do. It's all about what a potentially desperate Dodgers teams would do.
 
clvclv said:
Hamels is not "the comp" - simply an example of a much better Pitcher they had a chance to acquire that they wouldn't give up Seager or Urias for.

Move the goalpost all you like - name another player currently on the Braves' roster (or in the minors) you'd take with Miller for Seager. I can't.
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I am not saying that the Dodgers will ever part with Seager.. But you can't compare Miller situation with Cole's situation. They are completely different. Right now less so.. but if the Dodgers don't get Price or Zack, then they would be much more desperate this offseason to get another starting pitcher. Sure they might still say, no way are we trading Seager (who might be a 'generational' type player) but they may relax on Urais or Pederson.. Plus Miller is younger and A LOT cheaper than Hamels. Much more of a long term solution. at the deadline last year, the Dodgers where looking for a #3 type pitcher since they still had Zack and Kershaw. Much easier shopping for that when more teams are selling too.
 
clvclv said:
Hamels is not "the comp" - simply an example of a much better Pitcher they had a chance to acquire that they wouldn't give up Seager or Urias for.

Move the goalpost all you like - name another player currently on the Braves' roster (or in the minors) you'd take with Miller for Seager. I can't.
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Is Hamels really a 'much better' pitcher than Miller once you consider contract and age? I think the package that Texas ultimately coughed up is the best indicator of what his value was at the time. Steep, but not Top 10 MLB prospect worthy. Again, I'm not saying Shelby is.

We're dealing with two incredibly creative front-offices in this hypothetical. The Braves have an undeniably rich pool of prospect talent, and the Dodgers may covet a piece or two or three. Kind of like Atlanta stupidly coveted Hector Olivera. The Braves could move Freeman and agree to take on Adrian Gonzalez. Or Ethier or Crawford ... with others. There are a plethora of combinations.

All things considered, Seager's value is at a unique apex right now. Don't think the Dodgers aren't aware.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Someone WILL overpay. name all the pitchers who are:

1. solid #2 starters/boardline #1

2. young

3. Cheap

4. controllable for 3+ years

5. AVAILABLE

ready... Go....
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Considering that every player is available for the right return, the number of such pitchers is quite large. The Mets have several superior to Miller. Miller might be more "available" than them, but that simply reflects the mentality of our FO in terms of what kind of return they are willing to accept.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
What about a Miller and Ozzie package for Seager? Not saying I would want to.. just throwing out options.
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Absolutely from the Braves' perspective. I have no idea why they'd want it.

The Dodgers can buy anyone they want. Seager will be their SS on Opening Day, and there are no better options out there - including Ian Desmond. Why would you trade an All-Star caliber SS that's ready now to get Miller and a SS who's 2-3 years away, especially when you're trying to win now? Even if they don't get one of the "Aces", they're not going into the season without landing at least one (and maybe two) high-level SPs. I was one of Shelby's biggest supporters when we got him and still am, so don't misunderstand and think I'd sell short on him, but the numbers many of our more statistically-oriented posters have thrown out don't lie. He's not an "Ace". Seager's not the only prospect other GMs would be crazy to give up to get him without getting other significant pieces as well. I could probably come up with 10 or more young players/prospects I wouldn't give up to get Shelby...

Mookie Betts
Seager
Urias
Byron Buxton
Lucas Giolito
J. P. Crawford
Tyler Glasnow
Moncada
Austin Meadows

Depending on the situation, I wouldn't give up Rafael Devers or Nomar Mazara for him, but I could imagine things shaking out where Boston or Texas could be persuaded to.

Los Angeles would still be a much better team if they kept Seager and signed one of those next-tier free-agent Pitchers - Samardzija, Ian Kennedy, John Lackey, Hisashi Iwakuma, or Mike Leake (and/or potentially using those lesser prospects to trade for an additional starter) than they would be if they traded Seager for any of the Pitchers that have been whispered to be "available" in trades not named Jose Fernandez.
 
Hawk said:
I'm cautiously optimistic.

But if history is any indicator I should prepare myself for complete disappointment.
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Agreed!! This bunch who are running things now may turn out to be the best ever but so far IMO they haven't proven squat except they can get rid of big contracts. That's an OK and sometimes necessary skill but until the prospects they/we got back start to really pan out I remain unimpressed. If they do wind up great acquisitions then noone here will be happier about it than I, but that day ain't here yet.
 
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