Top 10 Atlanta Braves Trades: One Opinion

[rico43]

There has been way too much carping about the Braves' bad deals. So in the spirit of all the positive posts about this one, we list what we consider to be the Top 10 BEST trades in Braves history.

1. July 18, 1993: Braves deal Donnie Elliott, Melvin Nieves and Vince Moore to PADRES for FRED McGRIFF. And the Stadium burned. A should-be HOF player was a huge piece of the World Championship puzzle.

2. August 12, 1987: Braves deal Doyle Alexander to TIGERS for JOHN SMOLTZ. One Hall of Famer to go please.

3. December 8, 2015: Braves deal Shelby Miller and Gabe Speier to DIAMONDBACKS for Ender Inciarte, Dansby Swanson and Aaron Blair. Too soon?

4. November 30, 1972: Braves deal Earl Williams and Taylor Duncan to ORIOLES for Pat Dobson, Johnny Oates, Roric Harrison and Davey Johnson. Rookie of the Year and a No. 1 pick seemed like a lot, but Johnson turned into 40-homer monster, Harrison turned in an 11-win, five-saves season; Oates was a quality backup for the next two seasons and Dobson was flipped for four players less than a year later. Williams was reacquired by Braves in 1975.

5. December 16, 2004: Braves deal Juan Cruz, Charles "Chucky" Thomas and Dan Meyer to ATHLETICS for TIM HUDSON. Braves got seven superb seasons out of Hudson's nine-year stint with the club and 113 wins.

6. November 29, 1966: Braves deal Chi Chi Olivo and Bill Robinson to YANKEES for CLETE BOYER. A big piece of the 1969 NL West champs, winning the Gold Glove. Three solid seasons, with an injury in 1968 the only wrinkle.

7. August 28, 1996: Braves deal Jason Schmidt, Ron Wright and Corey Pointer to PIRATES for DENNY NEAGLE. Less than a year later, Neagle produced a 20-5 season and an all-star selection.

8. April 6,1995: Braves deal Roberto Kelly, Tony Tarasco and Esteban Yan to the EXPOS for Marquis Grissom. The final piece of the 1995 championship fell into place.

9. April 5, 2015: Braves deal Melvin Upton Jr. and Craig Kimbrel to PADRES for Matt Wisler, Cameron Maybin, Carlos Quentin, Jordan Paroubek and draft pick (Austin Riley). Notorious salary dump, but Riley makes this deal special. Neither Quentin or Paroubek played an inning for the Braves at any level.

10. January 15, 2002: Braves deal Brian Jordan, Andrew Brown and Odalis Perez to DODGERS for GARY SHEFFIELD. Two monster seasons, No. 3 in MVP voting in 2003. Had 64 homers, 216 RBIs in two .300-plus seasons.

TOO SOON: December 19, 2014: Braves deal Justin Upton and Aaron Northcraft to PADRES for Max Fried, Jace Peterson, Mallex Smith and Dustin Peterson. Jury is still out, but this could wind up being one of the all-timers.

***I welcome your disagreements! Merry Christmas to all and May the Force be with you.***

 

[Chico]

I know some are going to point out that Schmidt did pretty well for the Bucs. We were in win now mode at the time though.

 

[smootness]

I know some are going to point out that Schmidt did pretty well for the Bucs. We were in win now mode at the time though.

It's still hard to call that one of the best trades we've ever made because of this, though. You can use that as an argument that it wasn't a bad deal for us, but it's still hard to even call it a clear win. Schmidt wasn't the pitcher Neagle was in 97, but he was still decent, and they had about equal value in 98. And those are the only 2 years we had Neagle. Considering what Schmidt then ultimately became, I can't call that one of our best trades ever.

 

[smootness]

And it's definitely too soon to call the Miller trade our 3rd best ever, but it's still fun to talk about. I definitely think it has a chance to end up as our best ever.

 

[50PoundHead]

Bill Robinson had a pretty solid career after leaving the Yankees. Clete Boyer was a very good player, especially on defense, but I winced quite a bit watching Robinson play well after Clete had retired.

 

[emk418]

And it's definitely too soon to call the Miller trade our 3rd best ever, but it's still fun to talk about. I definitely think it has a chance to end up as our best ever.

Yea no way we can put the trade that high when the two main pieces are prospects. I love the trade but we also didn't get a Correa type. Time will tell how big of impact guys Blair and Swanson will become.

 

[Millwood1Hitter]

Sheffield trade is in top 3 for me, he's exactly the type of hitter we were missing in the middle of our lineup to protect Chipper and compliment Andruw after Galarraga declined/moved on. I don't know if I've ever been so excited in my life over a trade, although I thought it might have been a year or 2 or 3 too late. But we absolutely hosed the Dodgers for one of the best right handed hitters of all time. I didn't result in a championship, but it was a no-brainer.

I like this last haul, but it is still way way too early to tell what on the field dividends will be paid.

 

[smootness]

Sheffield trade is in top 3 for me, he's exactly the type of hitter we were missing in the middle of our lineup to protect Chipper and compliment Andruw after Galarraga declined/moved on. I don't know if I've ever been so excited in my life over a trade, although I thought it might have been a year or 2 or 3 too late. But we absolutely hosed the Dodgers for one of the best right handed hitters of all time. I didn't result in a championship, but it was a no-brainer.

I like this last haul, but it is still way way too early to tell what on the field dividends will be paid.

I would at least put it ahead of the Neagle deal. Sheffield was better for us than Neagle, and while Perez had two good years for the Dodgers, he also had a lot of meh and one of those good years came while we still had Sheffield anyway.

 

[Knucksie]

Too early to proclaim some of those deals greatest in franchise history. One that needs to be mentioned is Jimmy Kremers to MTL for Otis Nixon. Maybe another player involved? Otix was huge in '91 for a catching prospect who fizzled.

 

[rico43]

Too early to proclaim some of those deals greatest in franchise history. One that needs to be mentioned is Jimmy Kremers to MTL for Otis Nixon. Maybe another player involved? Otix was huge in '91 for a catching prospect who fizzled.

It could easily be there, but Nixon's sorry run-in with drugs when the team needed him most killed that idea from my viewpoint.

 

[rico43]

I would at least put it ahead of the Neagle deal. Sheffield was better for us than Neagle, and while Perez had two good years for the Dodgers, he also had a lot of meh and one of those good years came while we still had Sheffield anyway.

I tried to keep it simple, but a big part of the Neagle acquisition was that, after that great year and a decent second season, his salary became prohibitive (sound familiar) and he was flipped for Mike Remlinger (arguably the best set-up man the Braves have ever had) and one year of malcontent Bret Boone.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

I tried to keep it simple, but a big part of the Neagle acquisition was that, after that great year and a decent second season, his salary became prohibitive (sound familiar) and he was flipped for Mike Remlinger (arguably the best set-up man the Braves have ever had) and one year of malcontent Bret Boone.

Yeah, BUT the Neagle acquisition indirectly led to a lot of other stuff. He was a FA to be and had to be re-signed which the Braves did. Doing so raised the payroll which encouraged JS to trade Grissom and Justice for Lofton and Embree. Lofton was a FA to be and left to re-sign with Cleveland (Hart stuck it to JS on that deal), leaving a hole in CF. The Braves also had a hole at 2B so they traded young Jermaine Dye to KC for Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart.

And Neagle was completely unnecessary. The Braves would have been much better off with 6 years of Schmidt and Dye.

 

[Knucksie]

It could easily be there, but Nixon's sorry run-in with drugs when the team needed him most killed that idea from my viewpoint.

We all know the damage done, but that takes nothing away from the original trade. Optimal value was acquired for what turned out to be virtually nothing. Otis was a big part of what got them to that point.

Then, as great as the Smoltz trade was, it has to be viewed within the context of the time. The Tigers still got a very good deal, as Doyle Alexander had a Cy Young-caliber partial season for them that year. Smoltz's career would have turned out very differently, if he'd remained in the Detroit system.

 

[Knucksie]

Yeah, BUT the Neagle acquisition indirectly led to a lot of other stuff. He was a FA to be and had to be re-signed which the Braves did. Doing so raised the payroll which encouraged JS to trade Grissom and Justice for Lofton and Embree. Lofton was a FA to be and left to re-sign with Cleveland (Hart stuck it to JS on that deal), leaving a hole in CF. The Braves also had a hole at 2B so they traded young Jermaine Dye to KC for Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart.

And Neagle was completely unnecessary. The Braves would have been much better off with 6 years of Schmidt and Dye.

That Tucker-Dye trade had nothing to do with Neagle. It was strictly to get a LH hitting OF. Think you're even overreacting on the influence Neagle had on the Cleveland deal. Glavine & Maddux were the ones getting the big money (for the time) and Justice even said so.

 

[Knucksie]

I know some are going to point out that Schmidt did pretty well for the Bucs. We were in win now mode at the time though.

He didn't do much with the Bucs. He emerged well with the Giants. Then cashed in with Dodgers as FA and got hurt. Without checking to verify, he hardly pitched for LA.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

That Tucker-Dye trade had nothing to do with Neagle. It was strictly to get a LH hitting OF. Think you're even overreacting on the influence Neagle had on the Cleveland deal. Glavine & Maddux were the ones getting the big money (for the time) and Justice even said so.

If Justice had still been around, they don't need a LH bat. Could Dye have played CF, probably not. But, he could have played left with Klesko at 1B.

Glavine and Maddux WERE getting the big money, but the Braves already knew that and had budgeted for it. Glavine was getting about $5.5M, Maddux about $6.7M, Justice $6.2M, Grissom $4.85M. The Braves re-signed Neagle to a contract that averaged $4.7M. They traded for Lofton who was making $4.85M and Embree who was making $206K. So, they traded Justice & Grissom and shed about $11M, signed Neagle and added Lofton and Embree totaling almost $10M. It seems pretty clear to me.

When they signed Maddux, Glavine, Justice and Grissom to their contracts, then knew what the numbers would be. The change happened when they traded for Neagle (sending a cheap starter away in Schmidt who would have been at $206K) and having to re-sign him to a contract averaging almost $5M/year or else losing him after a half season. So they signed him. Which put them over budget. Which resulted in moving Justice and Grissom for Lofton and Embree which put them back under budget. But, then Lofton left via FA creating a hole and a need for a LH bat (that would not have been there if Justice was still around) and a CF/RF which encouraged them to trade their best young hitter (Jermaine Dye) and his RH, RF power bat for a LH CF and a somewhat useful 2B.

Would the Braves have been better moving Justice to 1B, playing Dye in RF, trading Grissom in CF and playing AJ there and using Schmidt as the 4th starter instead of Neagle? Would the transition away from Maddux and Glavine been easier with both Schmidt and Millwood on the staff? Would the Big Cat every play 1B for the Braves if Justice had moved there? Would the long term offense built around AJ, CJ and Dye been workable? All things we will never know.

My point is that even trades that look ok on the surface sometimes have reverberations that cause waves for years....as the Neagle acquisition did. And getting Neagle was entirely unnecessary. Even with Avery hurt, the Braves still had Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz with an emerging Schmidt and a veteran Bielecki. If the Braves needed anything it was some more pen help for Wohlers.

Neagle was a classic case of a GM and organization being blinded by their own reputation. One ACE - good. Two better. Three Better yet. Four? Why not.

Why not? Because there is a cost to everything.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

He didn't do much with the Bucs. He emerged well with the Giants. Then cashed in with Dodgers as FA and got hurt. Without checking to verify, he hardly pitched for LA.

Schmidt outpitched Neagle down the stretch in 1996 after being traded to Pitt. Neagle clearly outpitched him in 1997, but Schmidt went 32 games for a bad team at a 4.6 era at league minimum. He would have been a back of the rotation 4 or 5 for the Braves. The next year Schmidt pitched 33 games in the low 4s and again the next for Pitt. Neagle was gone by then from Atlanta.

Schmidt DID blossom for the Giants finishing 2nd and 4th in the Cy Young for SF in 2003, 2004. Would he have EVER blossomed for Atlanta? Maybe not.

 

[goldfly]

A trade that's a day old and is all prospects can't be the 3rd best trade ever

 

[steveAKAslick]

There has been way too much carping about the Braves' bad deals. So in the spirit of all the positive posts about this one, we list what we consider to be the Top 10 BEST trades in Braves history.

1. July 18, 1993: Braves deal Donnie Elliott, Melvin Nieves and Vince Moore to PADRES for FRED McGRIFF. And the Stadium burned. A should-be HOF player was a huge piece of the World Championship puzzle.

2. August 12, 1987: Braves deal Doyle Alexander to TIGERS for JOHN SMOLTZ. One Hall of Famer to go please.

3. December 8, 2015: Braves deal Shelby Miller and Gabe Speier to DIAMONDBACKS for Ender Inciarte, Dansby Swanson and Aaron Blair. Too soon?

4. November 30, 1972: Braves deal Earl Williams and Taylor Duncan to ORIOLES for Pat Dobson, Johnny Oates, Roric Harrison and Davey Johnson. Rookie of the Year and a No. 1 pick seemed like a lot, but Johnson turned into 40-homer monster, Harrison turned in an 11-win, five-saves season; Oates was a quality backup for the next two seasons and Dobson was flipped for four players less than a year later. Williams was reacquired by Braves in 1975.

5. December 16, 2004: Braves deal Juan Cruz, Charles "Chucky" Thomas and Dan Meyer to ATHLETICS for TIM HUDSON. Braves got seven superb seasons out of Hudson's nine-year stint with the club and 113 wins.

6. November 29, 1966: Braves deal Chi Chi Olivo and Bill Robinson to YANKEES for CLETE BOYER. A big piece of the 1969 NL West champs, winning the Gold Glove. Three solid seasons, with an injury in 1968 the only wrinkle.

7. August 28, 1996: Braves deal Jason Schmidt, Ron Wright and Corey Pointer to PIRATES for DENNY NEAGLE. Less than a year later, Neagle produced a 20-5 season and an all-star selection.

8. April 6,1995: Braves deal Roberto Kelly, Tony Tarasco and Esteban Yan to the EXPOS for Marquis Grissom. The final piece of the 1995 championship fell into place.

9. April 5, 2015: Braves deal Melvin Upton Jr. and Craig Kimbrel to PADRES for Matt Wisler, Cameron Maybin, Carlos Quentin, Jordan Paroubek and draft pick (Austin Riley). Notorious salary dump, but Riley makes this deal special. Neither Quentin or Paroubek played an inning for the Braves at any level.

10. January 15, 2002: Braves deal Brian Jordan, Andrew Brown and Odalis Perez to DODGERS for GARY SHEFFIELD. Two monster seasons, No. 3 in MVP voting in 2003. Had 64 homers, 216 RBIs in two .300-plus seasons.

TOO SOON: December 19, 2014: Braves deal Justin Upton and Aaron Northcraft to PADRES for Max Fried, Jace Peterson, Mallex Smith and Dustin Peterson. Jury is still out, but this could wind up being one of the all-timers.

***I welcome your disagreements! Merry Christmas to all and May the Force be with you.***

Where does Fried start at in 2016 and how fast does he move? I'm excited to see him pitch just about more than any pitching prospect the Braves have...

 

[Knucksie]

If Justice had still been around, they don't need a LH bat. Could Dye have played CF, probably not. But, he could have played left with Klesko at 1B.

Glavine and Maddux WERE getting the big money, but the Braves already knew that and had budgeted for it. Glavine was getting about $5.5M, Maddux about $6.7M, Justice $6.2M, Grissom $4.85M. The Braves re-signed Neagle to a contract that averaged $4.7M. They traded for Lofton who was making $4.85M and Embree who was making $206K. So, they traded Justice & Grissom and shed about $11M, signed Neagle and added Lofton and Embree totaling almost $10M. It seems pretty clear to me.

When they signed Maddux, Glavine, Justice and Grissom to their contracts, then knew what the numbers would be. The change happened when they traded for Neagle (sending a cheap starter away in Schmidt who would have been at $206K) and having to re-sign him to a contract averaging almost $5M/year or else losing him after a half season. So they signed him. Which put them over budget. Which resulted in moving Justice and Grissom for Lofton and Embree which put them back under budget. But, then Lofton left via FA creating a hole and a need for a LH bat (that would not have been there if Justice was still around) and a CF/RF which encouraged them to trade their best young hitter (Jermaine Dye) and his RH, RF power bat for a LH CF and a somewhat useful 2B.

Would the Braves have been better moving Justice to 1B, playing Dye in RF, trading Grissom in CF and playing AJ there and using Schmidt as the 4th starter instead of Neagle? Would the transition away from Maddux and Glavine been easier with both Schmidt and Millwood on the staff? Would the Big Cat every play 1B for the Braves if Justice had moved there? Would the long term offense built around AJ, CJ and Dye been workable? All things we will never know.

My point is that even trades that look ok on the surface sometimes have reverberations that cause waves for years....as the Neagle acquisition did. And getting Neagle was entirely unnecessary. Even with Avery hurt, the Braves still had Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz with an emerging Schmidt and a veteran Bielecki. If the Braves needed anything it was some more pen help for Wohlers.

Neagle was a classic case of a GM and organization being blinded by their own reputation. One ACE - good. Two better. Three Better yet. Four? Why not.

Why not? Because there is a cost to everything.

Look everybody, Millwood1Hitter has set up a 2nd account!