O's and Royals showing interest in Nick the Stick

I was thinking of a semi-plausible deal that oculd work out for us.

We trade Markakis and pay for his whole salary this year (which Baltimore can then choose to defer for the rest of the deal or not, their call) to Baltimore for Bundy and Matusz.

We trade Inciarte and Julio for Solar, Baez, and TLS back

We then trade TLS/Jace (whoever gets the better return) to Diamondbacks for prospects.

We then sign Kazmir and Leake.

2016 Braves.

C - Platoon
1B- Freeman
2B - Jace/TLS
3B - Baez
SS - Aybar
LF - Olivera
CF - Mallex
RF - Solar

Bench
other catcher platoon
Garcia
Beckham
Swisher
Bourn

Rotation
Kazmir
Leake
Norris
Wisler
Folty (or whoever the best of those guys are including Bundy)

Pen
CL - Viz
LSU - Matusz
RSU - Johnson
Fill the rest with whoever is ther.e
 
I'm going outside the box, AGAIN.

If Randy Winn can be traded for Lou Pinella, surely we should be able to get Buck Showwalter for Nick and Fredi.
 
Heyward said:
Cubs arent trading Soler AND Baez, thats ridiculous.
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This. And in reference to zito's post, I'd probably rather roll with Teheran and Inciarte than Soler and Baez. And you can't play Soler in RF. It takes away a ton of his value. As a RF, he basically has to absolutely mash to be worth much of anything at all.
 
Heyward said:
Cubs arent trading Soler AND Baez, thats ridiculous.
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Not ridiculous at all. Where's Baez gonna play? They have Bryant locking down 3B, Russell has locked down either 2B or 3B. Their top prospect is Gleybar TOrres, a SS, their 3rd rated prospect is Ian Happ, who's an OF/2B.
 
smootness said:
This. And in reference to zito's post, I'd probably rather roll with Teheran and Inciarte than Soler and Baez. And you can't play Soler in RF. It takes away a ton of his value. As a RF, he basically has to absolutely mash to be worth much of anything at all.
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That's what Soler has to do regardless. It's a gamble to have him and Olivera in the same OF, BUT the potential payoff is insane.
 
sturg33 said:
And Zobrist for 4 years
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Right totally forgot about that.

I think Baez is dangled immediately. If they really want Julio and really wanted Inciarte we've got 2 pieces they reallly want. Julio is for sure worth more than one of those 2, so I stick to those guys being a trade that could make sense if the Braves want to do it.
 
No on Tehran trade.

Inciarte and their favorite of wisler/folty/Blair for soler plus Almora plus candelario plus happ or zagunis
 
zitothebrave said:
That's what Soler has to do regardless. It's a gamble to have him and Olivera in the same OF, BUT the potential payoff is insane.
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But again, Soler's value is limited because of his horrendous defense. Even if he does mash, he's not ever going to be a 6+ WAR guy. While I would obviously take something in the range of 4 WAR, I'd just rather have Inciarte given our current roster makeup.

I prefer not to have anybody in the field who is a butcher, and if you must have one, I want it to be someone who has already proven they will hit...not somebody who didn't even slug .400 last year.

I like Baez's potential more, but his issue is obviously the K's.

I do think either or potentially both could be available in the right deal. Russell is their SS going forward, Bryant pretty much has to play 3B with the number of OFs they have, and Zobrist will likely play 2B. You could put Baez in the OF if Schwarber sticks at C, but if I were them, I'd rather trade Baez and wait on McKinney and Happ.

But if they're going to unload both Soler and Baez, especially in the same deal, they're going to be looking for more than Inciarte and Teheran. And I wouldn't even feel good about giving them that.
 
Russ2dollas said:
No on Tehran trade.

Inciarte and their favorite of wisler/folty/Blair for soler plus Almora plus candelario plus happ or zagunis
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Well that's never going to happen.

But those pitchers are not equivalent. Wisler and Blair have far more value than Folty.

Also, Almora's ceiling is basically what Inciarte is now.
 
clvclv said:
Markakis, Aybar, Pierzynski, Norris, Grilli, and Jim Johnson (and even Bourn) all fit the same mold - and do so for a rebuilding team perfectly.

Are they All-Stars? Of course not. However, they're all veterans with track-records of success signed to affordable contracts that make them attractive as Plan B options for more than a few teams that view themselves as potential contenders. Those aren't pieces you just "give away" to clear their salaries. What often gets missed when looking at those kinds of players is that they even provide value to the 2016 Braves. That value doesn't make them "valuable" to those who just look at the numbers. They're here because they hopefully provide you a bridge to the first wave of kids that are coming.

If you're still following the 2017 narrative at this point, you'll never understand it. The only way being competitive in 2017 happens is if The Johns sneak in and land a Cespedes or Upton, 2 or 3 of the young guns make huge strides this season, and prospects like Smith, Swanson, and Albies force their hand. The Markakis types are here in the event they don't. They provide you options that will allow you to keep from rushing the kids while not being black holes. Think about it - how bad might last year have been WITHOUT Nick, A. J., KJ, Uribe, Grilli, and Johnson???

I completely understand feeling like you were "lied to" about 2017 as a target date, but if you really understood the vast wasteland the system had become you knew that was an absolute best-case scenario even IF everything worked out as hoped in anyone's wildest dreams - the veterans signed or traded for performed really well (and stayed healthy in Grilli's case) and you found teams with the right pieces that needed them, the prospects all sped up their timelines, etc..

All those guys are "expendable", inexpensive, and won't be in the way if and when the prospects show they're ready. Even if you're not able to get Top 100 prospects for them, you'll still be able to find someone that can use them that will at least give you International Bonus Slots to add them when you go on the spending spree this July 2nd. Will that save you tons of money? Not if you don't look at the "big picture", but when you step back and really calculate the numbers, a couple million in bonus slots PLUS taking 3 months of those salaries suddenly makes the Maitans awfully cheap when you consider the 100% penalty you get if/when you sign them.
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The diff with nick and the others is that the others are one yr deals. Chuck nick and u can find a vet of to hope he puts it together.

Maybe if we have extra money we can take on someone else's bad deal to get a stud on the cheap. Maybe we get a player in trade who makes us better but is slightly overpaid (again keep trade cost low).
 
Heyward said:
Cubs arent trading Soler AND Baez, thats ridiculous.
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Actually it was reported that Baez and Soler would have both been involved in a Shelby deal so no... It's not ridiculous. It's far from ridiculous actually. If they got Inciarte then Soler and Baez are blocked with the addition of Zobrist.

It is ridiculous to get both for Inciarte but that's why I said him plus a prospect... Such as a close to ready SP which they could really use.
 
smootness said:
Well that's never going to happen.

But those pitchers are not equivalent. Wisler and Blair have far more value than Folty.
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I never thought the Miller trade would work.

I agree on pitchers but some ppl love velocity

Cubs need some innings eaters. They need a cheap cf who can be elite on d and be ok hitting. If they get those then all of those guys are blocked. Guys that will be ready 16-17 when they have young options already in those spots who are better.

Soler is way more potential than performance. They want to win now not hope soler puts tools to I game use. Let's them keep Baez as super sub in case of injury
 
smootness said:
But again, Soler's value is limited because of his horrendous defense. Even if he does mash, he's not ever going to be a 6+ WAR guy. While I would obviously take something in the range of 4 WAR, I'd just rather have Inciarte given our current roster makeup.

I prefer not to have anybody in the field who is a butcher, and if you must have one, I want it to be someone who has already proven they will hit...not somebody who didn't even slug .400 last year.

I like Baez's potential more, but his issue is obviously the K's.

I do think either or potentially both could be available in the right deal. Russell is their SS going forward, Bryant pretty much has to play 3B with the number of OFs they have, and Zobrist will likely play 2B. You could put Baez in the OF if Schwarber sticks at C, but if I were them, I'd rather trade Baez and wait on McKinney and Happ.

But if they're going to unload both Soler and Baez, especially in the same deal, they're going to be looking for more than Inciarte and Teheran. And I wouldn't even feel good about giving them that.
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And it's a valid concern. I am hoping Olivera rocks and we can unload him for someone much younger and long term better,

And it's hard to do better than Julio and Inciarte to be honest. Julio's value is down, but just last offseason you could have gotten much more than SOler and Baez.
 
mqt said:
I don't see how Teheran is a two at this point. He's been pretty mediocre.
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General statement and he had a rough first half, but Teheran is not a mediocre pitcher. I know that you can throw stats, but he's one year removed from being the Braves stopper of losing streaks and an all-star. Your statement should say he's was mediocre last year, but he also turned it around in the second half.
 
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