Grilli

msstate7 said:
That would be great.

If he shows up pitching like last year will viz be setup man to keep trade value up for Grilli?
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I'd say yes. In addition to keeping Grilli as a "successful closer" if he does well, it keeps Vizzy's save totals down which would help down the line in arbitration if he's still here and effective at that time.
 
I don't think we keep Vizcaino for that reason. He's a "closer" right now. You can sell high on him.
 
Chico said:
I don't think we keep Vizcaino for that reason. He's a "closer" right now. You can sell high on him.
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All but willing to bet Vizcaino goes nowhere. No one's going to offer anything close to the potential upside he possesses at this point.

Teams give up young, controllable arms like the Braves are collecting - Fried, Banuelos, Vizcaino, etc. - for 50 cents on the dollar because they're in contention or TRYING to get into contention. Sure those guys are bigger risks, but when you're a rebuilding team who cares??? No one's going to offer a player or multiple players who could crack our current Top 10 prospects for Max, Manny, or Arodys, so why would you trade them?

Yes, having them reach close to what their ceilings are/were is unlikely, but they cost you nothing when you got them. You gave up something to get them - if you don't get something with at least as much upside, you don't give them up. If they flame out and never contribute, you're not out very much. If a couple of them hit, suddenly you've got a Mets-like rotation and a Royals-like pen.

Vizcaino has had his first blow-out - you're not getting a Kimbrel-like or Ken Giles-like return for him.
 
I'd all but be willing to bet on it as well. Maybe we should? Avatar bet?

Viz's value is possibly at his highest. That's when we've been looking to flip.

He's basically a rookie, but will be going into arbitration. He still won't cost much, but he's a 3 more yr controlled player as opposed to 5.

He's already had an 80 game suspension and could offer a risk of another. Thats the same kind of risk Wood represented with his pitching style that caused a sell high situation.

Having another closer to rack up saves the first half gives us another July trade candidate. Someone would step up based on the numbers.
 
Chico said:
I'd all but be willing to bet on it as well. Maybe we should? Avatar bet?
Viz's value is possibly at his highest. That's when we've been looking to flip.
He's basically a rookie, but will be going into arbitration. He still won't cost much, but he's a 3 more yr controlled player as opposed to 5.
He's already had an 80 game suspension and could offer a risk of another. Thats the same kind of risk Wood represented with his pitching style that caused a sell high situation.
Having another closer to rack up saves the first half gives us another July trade candidate. Someone would step up based on the numbers.
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And again I ask - what kind of return do you REALISTICALLY expect to get for him???

All 29 other teams also realize the issue the Braves are facing with his arbitration clock as well. I'm not willing to say he's reached his peak value. However - if he has and the best return you're going to get for him is a fringe Top 30 prospect in our system (at the absolute most), why not keep him while he's cheap? In the event he does begin to develop into a lockdown Closer over the next 3 seasons, there are going to be plenty of resources available to extend him with.

He has a 6 week track record of being relatively successful in the role, but even struggled at times during that period. There are several free-agent options available on the market who are far more proven than Arodys who would cost teams $6-$12 million (the average MLB salary of $4 million per max) over the next 3 years that teams could just go out and sign WITHOUT giving up a prospect. I love Vizcaino, but he's simply not going to bring you anything back at this point. If Grilli's traded or Arodys wrestles the job away from him, you can always revisit trading him when he actually has some value - contenders have someone go down and are desperate in June, not January.

https://whensidslidcronies.wordpress.com/2015/12/24/dont-get-in-too-big-a-hurry/
 
I think the Braves should take it slow with Grilli and have him open the season on the DL. Would certainly make it easier to initially manage the bullpen log jam.

Barring injury, I think we'll have three locks for the opening day bullpen: Vizcaino, Johnson, and a LH veteran they have yet to acquire (Matt Thornton or EOF being possibilities). That leaves 4 spots for the group below . . .

Guys who need to make the OD pen or we lose them: Carpenter (opt out), Ogando (opt out), Winkler (rule 5), Rutckyj (rule 5), Ramirez (out of options)
Guys who we could hide on DL or option to AAA: Grilli, Withrow, Krol, Burawa, McKirahan, Kelly, Markberry

As things look now, it sure seems likely we'll be offering Winkler back to the Rockies.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm pretty sure ManBan is also out of options. He will almost certainly be on the roster if so.
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Yeah, I suspect he's a lock for the rotation if healthy. He's got everything going for him. Out of options and only LH option in the running (until or unless they re-sign Minor or Buehrle).
 
clvclv said:
And again I ask - what kind of return do you REALISTICALLY expect to get for him???

All 29 other teams also realize the issue the Braves are facing with his arbitration clock as well. I'm not willing to say he's reached his peak value. However - if he has and the best return you're going to get for him is a fringe Top 30 prospect in our system (at the absolute most), why not keep him while he's cheap? In the event he does begin to develop into a lockdown Closer over the next 3 seasons, there are going to be plenty of resources available to extend him with.

He has a 6 week track record of being relatively successful in the role, but even struggled at times during that period. There are several free-agent options available on the market who are far more proven than Arodys who would cost teams $6-$12 million (the average MLB salary of $4 million per max) over the next 3 years that teams could just go out and sign WITHOUT giving up a prospect. I love Vizcaino, but he's simply not going to bring you anything back at this point. If Grilli's traded or Arodys wrestles the job away from him, you can always revisit trading him when he actually has some value - contenders have someone go down and are desperate in June, not January.

https://whensidslidcronies.wordpress.com/2015/12/24/dont-get-in-too-big-a-hurry/
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I'm not suggesting you give him away for a barely on the radar prospect. Yes. That would be dumb. My guess is he's packaged with another player such as Inciarte or Markakis. Nothing about this FO makes me think we're done with this offseason, just because we made 2 big trades. I think there's more action to come and Viz will be part of that.
 
If a team likes Vizcaino and you can package him in a deal to get something better, then you do it. Otherwise, you wait until at least the trade deadline.
 
I don't know why anyone would be in a rush to trade Vizcaino. September performance is always an iffy measure on which to judge future returns, but Vizcaino really looked sharp and I think he could at least be a top-tier set-up guy.

That said, if he's viewed as the secondary part to a trade that would net us some long-term hitting prospects, moving him would be a consideration. My only point is that after watching the disaster of a bullpen we had in the second half of the season, I don't want to go through that again.
 
I want to trade Vizcaino because I don't trust him to stay healthy and he already has a lot of service time because he was on the ML roster when he got hurt. I would wait till the trade deadline but I would trade him before his arm implodes again.
 
I think a power bp arm is going to be most valuable at the deAdline. Yes he could get hurt but if he's the closer and does well maybe you get a package like the Phil's got. Esp if we took some money back.

I think he could be our closer moving forward. I'm in no rush unless we get he package the Phil's got.
 
He might not be the closer and could lose some value, but yes it's also an option to keep him to July as long as you think his stock will go up and not down.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I think a power bp arm is going to be most valuable at the deAdline. Yes he could get hurt but if he's the closer and does well maybe you get a package like the Phil's got. Esp if we took some money back.

I think he could be our closer moving forward. I'm in no rush unless we get he package the Phil's got.
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You're aware Santa Claus isn't real, right?
 
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