praeceps93
Roaming in Rome
Nah, I just have more faith in prospects than you seem to.
Why we should be all over Justin Upton
- Thread starter Carp
- Start date
Nah, I just have more faith in prospects than you seem to.
Believe me, we already know you lack the ability to think past today.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I know it's de rigueur to dog Niners around here, but really, he's onto something.
I value guys with actual experience and success at the ML level more than most and prospects less than most on here. Not as much as, say, Dave Stewart, but I think we get all amped up at the could-bes who haven't done anything and might never do anything.
Where I think the Braves leap over this wire is that they've put so many together, there's a strong likelihood that a sufficient number of them pan out. Most of these guys will be Blaine Boyer and Kyle Davies and Jo Jo Reyes, y'know?
Frankly, I'm not sure why we hang on to poor Freddie and Julio. If the team is going to come together in three years, why sentence them to stick around? Trade 'em to Arizona or somebody else dumb and desperate. Buy another 1,500 Powerballs.
praeceps93
Roaming in Rome
This was kind of the motivating force behind my original comment. Maybe "realistic floor" isn't exactly accurate when describing .500 in 2017, but what I meant was in the worst case scenario I can imagine (where a large number of our acquired prospects bust) we still have enough of them to put together a mediocre ball club.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Yeah, I'm with you. Now that you've done some very hard pruning, finish the job. Don't half ass it. Whole ass it.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Left field. Olivera plays 2B or 3B. Ideal situation would be to sign Justin and trade Markakis and Upton plays RF.
rico43
<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
It's mid-January. I promise you, one-year deals are looking better and better to these top shelf FAs who have not connected with anyone yet. Heck, bring Upton home in the spirit of Adam LaRoche and Kent Mercker and Kelly Johnson and Kelly Johnson. Once a Brave, always a Brave. Except for Rob Wickman.
But he's arguing that 1 year of Justin Upton is better than any draft pick for our current team. Meaning he isn't taking into account at all whether this team is one Justin Upton away from competing or how long we'll have Upton vs. how long we'll have the draft pick.
All he's thinking is, 'Justin Upton is a major league player, and a draft pick is not. Therefore we should take Upton.' That's dumb.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
wonder if one year of Heyward was worth (5+ Jenkins/ 5+ Swanson/ 5+ Inciarte/ 5+ Blair)??
I don't know that "all over" is the term I'd use, but I don't think the brass would be doing their jobs if they weren't at least keeping in touch with Justin and Cespedes' representatives. I also believe that they're doing just that - simply very quietly.
I've been a proponent of trying to "sneak in" to steal Cespedes away while everyone's sleeping on us, and the same thoughts apply here. I'd still prefer to sign Cespedes since he wouldn't cost that draft pick, but if you could get either for 5 or 6 years in the $20-$22 million/year range I'd be all for it - even if it did cost you the #35-ish pick. The chances that you land someone with that pick that has the chance to eventually be a significant contributor at the MLB level for 5 or 6 years are so small that it's worth rolling the dice IMO.
IF (really not even a question in my mind) the organization is committed to doing what it's going to take to land Maitan and/or Lazaro during the international signing period, you'll add two bats with J-Up/Cespedes-type upside that will be ready by the time their contracts are up. On top of that, you'll be in position to watch Blake Rutherford and the high school arms VERY closely and decide which way you want to go based on who you feel fits best organizationally (rather than simply best player available) for once. If Rutherford (or another bat) doesn't impress you as someone who projects to be as good as Maitan or Lazaro in the long run, take the arm with the highest ceiling at #3 and keep building that high-ceiling depth so you can trade from it.
While I've never thought of Julio as an "Ace", I believe enough in the prospects that we've stockpiled to think that a rotation of Teheran, Newcomb, Blair, Banuelos, Wisler could be pretty competitive in the second half of this season (and certainly by 2017) IF you had that right-handed protection for Freeman. Is that optimistic? Sure, but I've always been one of the minority who likes what The Johns have done. You'd then have all those other almost-ready arms (Folty, Sims, Jenkins) plus the younger arms to fall back on and build a very strong pen with for 2017 and later.
CF- Inciarte, 3B- Olivera, 1B- Freeman, LF- J-Up/Cespedes, RF- Markakis, C- A.J./Flowers, SS- Aybar, 2B- Peterson/KJ
would be a much tougher lineup to navigate than I think a lot of people give thought to.
I've been a proponent of trying to "sneak in" to steal Cespedes away while everyone's sleeping on us, and the same thoughts apply here. I'd still prefer to sign Cespedes since he wouldn't cost that draft pick, but if you could get either for 5 or 6 years in the $20-$22 million/year range I'd be all for it - even if it did cost you the #35-ish pick. The chances that you land someone with that pick that has the chance to eventually be a significant contributor at the MLB level for 5 or 6 years are so small that it's worth rolling the dice IMO.
IF (really not even a question in my mind) the organization is committed to doing what it's going to take to land Maitan and/or Lazaro during the international signing period, you'll add two bats with J-Up/Cespedes-type upside that will be ready by the time their contracts are up. On top of that, you'll be in position to watch Blake Rutherford and the high school arms VERY closely and decide which way you want to go based on who you feel fits best organizationally (rather than simply best player available) for once. If Rutherford (or another bat) doesn't impress you as someone who projects to be as good as Maitan or Lazaro in the long run, take the arm with the highest ceiling at #3 and keep building that high-ceiling depth so you can trade from it.
While I've never thought of Julio as an "Ace", I believe enough in the prospects that we've stockpiled to think that a rotation of Teheran, Newcomb, Blair, Banuelos, Wisler could be pretty competitive in the second half of this season (and certainly by 2017) IF you had that right-handed protection for Freeman. Is that optimistic? Sure, but I've always been one of the minority who likes what The Johns have done. You'd then have all those other almost-ready arms (Folty, Sims, Jenkins) plus the younger arms to fall back on and build a very strong pen with for 2017 and later.
CF- Inciarte, 3B- Olivera, 1B- Freeman, LF- J-Up/Cespedes, RF- Markakis, C- A.J./Flowers, SS- Aybar, 2B- Peterson/KJ
would be a much tougher lineup to navigate than I think a lot of people give thought to.
Of course not - who'd ever think that could be possible???
The Cubs and Astros should have kept all those veterans they had instead of trading them away and loading up on prospects too. Stupid front office guys!!!
I honestly have no idea what you're arguing. I'm saying one year of Justin Upton doesn't help us, just like one year of Jason Heyward wouldn't have helped us. We did the right thing by trading Heyward, and we'd be doing the right thing by not signing Upton.
ixiXSolidXixi
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I dont understand why we want Justin Upton, he is good but he never done nothing on the mlb we need to keep our focus in get next year another high pick between 1-10. Justin Upton will help up for maybe 1 year we are looking for the long run. If we draft this year with the first two picks a guy like Aj Puk and maybe with the second someone like Alex Speas and then next year we have the chance to draft another high upside pitcher and we will have pitchers until 2026 with high upside. We need to try to trade Julio Terahan for someone like Josh Donaldson thats sign until 2018. Us the fans we need to look for the best and everyone know Justin Upton is not close to the best. Imagine a line up of Albies,Swanson,Freeman,Donaldson,Olivera,Wieters/Lucroy,Malex,Inciarte. I believe we can score tons of runs plus a lot of arms fresh in our line up. Yes I know Julio Terahan is not going to give us Donaldson but we can make a parkage.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
recalibrate you sarcasm meter..
retorte to Niner saying..MLB players are more valuable than prospects.... with no context or parameters. Sure I would rather have Trout over Seager.. But I would rather have Seager over Jup.. I would also rather have Inciarte/Blair/Jenkins/Swanson over Hayward.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
If those guys are desperate and we have money then why not get cespedes
No draft pick.
Pay him big or pa k with incentives. Trade him at deadline. For one year you have to go cespedes
No draft pick.
Pay him big or pa k with incentives. Trade him at deadline. For one year you have to go cespedes
Oh, I'm dumb.
It doesn't make much sense to sign either one for one year. I'm not totally opposed to bringing either in for a few years if you can get them for a reasonable price.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
I am still surprised neither one has signed. They are game changers no matter where they end up playing. I haven't paid any attention to baseball, but has their been a market for either one? Or are they simply trying to get a big deal and wait?