ALBIES AND SWANSON!!!!!!

Russ2dollas said:
I don't think that is right.

Dob was adamant that the braves did not lose any yrs of control on Blair
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What Enscheff said is correct, but what DOB said is correct too because DOB was referencing this year, not next year like Enscheff. Enscheff is saying if they wait a couple weeks into next season to call them up they get all of next year and 6 additional years. Just as with Blair we get this year and 6 additional years, though he will be super 2 when he'd not been if we simply waited a few more weeks.
 
I want us to promote guys when we think they're ready for it and for that to be the only decision, unless you're literally talking about a week or two between when they're ready and when we would gain an extra year of control.

If they feel like Albies and Swanson are ready for promotions, then this is a good decision. And there's really nothing to argue on Swanson, so the concern seems to be over Albies...but this is a guy who was given a very aggressive promotion and is hitting better in AA than he did in A. So we seem to believe he's ready, and I think he is, too.

Bryce Harper was promoted extremely aggressively, and it hasn't hurt him a bit. You could make the argument that if a guy is killing it then he's too good for the level and he actually won't be forced to make adjustments, so you promote him until he's at a level that actually challenges him to help his development.

Albies and Swanson both seem to be ready for promotions. If they appear to be ready for the jump to the majors in 2 months, then I'm fine with bringing them up.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Plan is probably to extend and make that argument moot.

If he becomes a boras client they will trade him
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They can plan all they want, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. If you keep them in the minors until May 2017 we don't have to worry about it, and have them for 7 years of control. We aren't going to make the playoffs next year either, so wasting a full year of control for a month or two of major league time is idiotic.

See Jason Heyward for a good example of why we are complaining about this. Furcal is another perfect example. Bring either up a month or two later and you get another full year of control for each. As Enscheff said, it's all about resource management, which is essential to be consistently good as a mid market/small market club like the Braves are with our crappy TV contract.
 
auyushu said:
They can plan all they want, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. If you keep them in the minors until May 2017 we don't have to worry about it, and have them for 7 years of control. We aren't going to make the playoffs next year either, so wasting a full year of control for a month or two of major league time is idiotic.

See Jason Heyward for a good example of why we are complaining about this. Furcal is another perfect example. Bring either up a month or two later and you get another full year of control for each. As Enscheff said, it's all about resource management, which is essential to be consistently good as a mid market/small market club like the Braves are with our crappy TV contract.
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I get it. But I don't think u can focus on 2024. By that time the braves want to be winning games, having a lot more money, and be out of tv deal. Front office could be fired by then. Ownership could be done by then.

Braves prob hope maitan et al are ready to replace albies if he becomes a boras guy.

Copy has made comments iirc that they are not going to play a lot of service time games. Maybe they think that helps them in signing future young guys.

Heyward came up early. If he is up 2 months into the season it's very unlikely we make the playoffs. We were not signing him. We dealt him for a good return and got a great return bc zo a is dumb. I'm not complaining about that.

I really think we could be a decent team next year with Swanson and albies and one big trade or signing.

If he's an all star in 2022 and won't sign then you flip him.
 
smootness said:
I want us to promote guys when we think they're ready for it and for that to be the only decision, unless you're literally talking about a week or two between when they're ready and when we would gain an extra year of control.

If they feel like Albies and Swanson are ready for promotions, then this is a good decision. And there's really nothing to argue on Swanson, so the concern seems to be over Albies...but this is a guy who was given a very aggressive promotion and is hitting better in AA than he did in A. So we seem to believe he's ready, and I think he is, too.

Bryce Harper was promoted extremely aggressively, and it hasn't hurt him a bit. You could make the argument that if a guy is killing it then he's too good for the level and he actually won't be forced to make adjustments, so you promote him until he's at a level that actually challenges him to help his development.

Albies and Swanson both seem to be ready for promotions. If they appear to be ready for the jump to the majors in 2 months, then I'm fine with bringing them up.
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As good as Harper was at 20...he is much better now and will likely be quite a bit better at 26 than he was at 20...which is my point about Albies
 
Russ2dollas said:
So why not keep him inthe minors 4 more years and control his entire 20s?
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A bit extreme, I think.. now the FO could elect to extend them after this year if they are thinking about bringing them up. Just give them a contract to extend each to age 29. you could buy them cheap I am sure. The risk is they flame out or get injured but they could go cheap because they would have guaranteed money in case they flame out or get injured..
 
bravesfanMatt said:
A bit extreme, I think.. now the FO could elect to extend them after this year if they are thinking about bringing them up. Just give them a contract to extend each to age 29. you could buy them cheap I am sure. The risk is they flame out or get injured but they could go cheap because they would have guaranteed money in case they flame out or get injured..
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That's my point. Every yr to 30 u assume they'll be better. At some point they play

Some we can extend lie Simmons ff Tehran kimbrel. Others will get traded. 2017 we will want to be 500 or better
 
Russ2dollas said:
I don't think that is right.

Dob was adamant that the braves did not lose any yrs of control on Blair

Iirc u have to keep them below 172 days on 25 man to get a bonus yr
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They didn't lose a year of control in Blair because they left him in the minors for a month. They now control him for 6 years plus 5 months of this season...or exactly what we are suggesting they do with Swanson and Albies.

Those guys need to stay in the minors all 2016. Bringing them up this year is beyond stupid. There is no reason to start their clocks so the Braves lose 90 games instead of 100 games.
 
We should call them both up to pump up their trade value then flip them for a top 50 prospect.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I get it. But I don't think u can focus on 2024. By that time the braves want to be winning games, having a lot more money, and be out of tv deal. Front office could be fired by then. Ownership could be done by then.

Braves prob hope maitan et al are ready to replace albies if he becomes a boras guy.

Copy has made comments iirc that they are not going to play a lot of service time games. Maybe they think that helps them in signing future young guys.
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Hate to break it to you, but we're unfortunately going to still be under the Tv contract in 2024, it doesn't run out until 2027.

But anyway, you always have to consider 5-6 years down the road, otherwise you wind up just like we are right now. JS was focused entirely on the now in 2003-2008 and wiped out our farm and screwed us because of it. Once we got rebuilt a bit Wren's crappy low ceiling short term focused drafted screwed us again (along with some poor injury luck). In order to have a consistently good team as a mid-market team you always have to consider all the angles.

And it's not playing service time game to call up Swanson or Albies in June next year, that would actually be perfectly normal progression. What we are doing right now would be considered rushing the hell out of them by most franchises leveling process.

And if by being a decent team you mean right around .500, then sure we could do that next year. But wasting a year of control on them for that is pointless. We don't have the pitching to make noise yet, but we will in 2018/2019, which is main reason it makes more sense to streamline Albies and Swanson's clocks for 2018-2023.
 
I think players need to play when they are ready. I think being 500 next year is a stepping stone to playoffs. I don't think you want to go into 18 with 5 plus rookies

Ideally we keep them under 172 days next yr.

But we have a lot of things to consider. I think the braves feel confident they extend them
 
Russ2dollas said:
I think players need to play when they are ready. I think being 500 next year is a stepping stone to playoffs. I don't think you want to go into 18 with 5 plus rookies

Ideally we keep them under 172 days next yr.

But we have a lot of things to consider. I think the braves feel confident they extend them
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this is pretty much where I am. if they're pushing the issue that much by performing the way they have, keep challenging them.
 
I would also move a player up as they show they are ready. But I would say that a player should show they are are ready at each level over a two to three month period as opposed to a few weeks.
 
auyushu said:
And for as awesome as Andruw was defensively, he never really hit his full potential offensively. Now whether having that extra time in the minors would have made him a better hitter is questionable, but leapfrogging through levels definitely didn't help him. You have to give the players a chance to struggle so they can learn to make adjustments. When you move them so fast they don't even see pitchers more than once then nobody makes adjustments to them, and in turn they don't get a chance to learn to adjust.

And clearly they are planning on starting them at the beginning of next year, but it's pretty dumb. And it's being done for financial reasons (to drum up interest in the club for the new park), not developmental reasons.
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yeezus said:
there is no guarantee andruw does any better if he spends more time in the minors. prospects don't live up to their potential all the time.
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... [MENTION=1596]auyushu[/MENTION] explicitly admitted as much in the second sentence of the post, so I'm not sure why you're reiterating. The point is, it'd be hard to argue that flying up so quickly patently helped Andruw's development, even if "there is no guarantee Andruw does any better if he spends more time in the minors."

And at least—with a very competitive team and needs on the major-league roster—there was some justification for moving Andruw (or Furcal, or Francoeur, et cetera) up to the majors quickly. In a lost season like this one, the Human Centi-John that runs the organization just needs to embrace the major-league suck and be patient with the gems down on the farm.
 
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