The DBacks, Upton, Prado, and spunk

GovClintonTyree

GovClintonTyree

<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
We're in the home stretch of the first year following the Prado/Upton trade, and as we're legging out the last 100 yards of a beautiful quarter-mile and the D-Backs defiantly and petulantly put the finishing touches on their very pedestrian season, I think the lesson is this:

It is a marvelous idea to have a versatile glue guy to tie it all together once you've built your championship caliber club. But first, you have to build your championship caliber club. That requires "difference makers", not glue guys. You start building with difference makers like JUpton, Freeman, McCann, and Goldschmidt and you fill the cracks with guys like Prado (not a slam).

The D-Backs have great makeup, which Gibson and Towers wanted, they just don't have the horses. We have lots of horses, and Upton might be the biggest.
 
The D-Backs are about 6 games out of the WC, if they make a good run they could be in the mix.

That said they'd certainly be more in the mix if they had Justin.
 
Well we don't know that Johnson would do this well with them. He credited Braves staff with tweaking his approach. Regardless though, Towers sure screwed the team by basically publicly pissing off Justin.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Yup. Don't have the horses.

How about if they had Justin and CJ?
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They did last year. Finished .500

Upton didn't want to stay in Arizona and didn't fit into what they wanted. They choose to keep organization in tact and change players. They got some dectn pieces that will be there a lot longer than what Justin would have been there for.

Much of the trade will depend on how well Delgado pitches. I hated giving him up.
 
gilesfan said:
They did last year. Finished .500

Upton didn't want to stay in Arizona and didn't fit into what they wanted. They choose to keep organization in tact and change players. They got some dectn pieces that will be there a lot longer than what Justin would have been there for.
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Well, Upton didn't have much choice. He was signed for three more years. And, you know, maybe he would have been less enthusiastic about leaving if the organization hadn't spent the winter desperately trying to trade him, and whispering about his attitude and lack of grit.

And not even the Diamondbacks accused him of failing to play hard. I have no doubt that, if the organization had decided after all the trade rumors to hold on to Upton, he would have played hard for them this year.

Blaming that trade on Upton is wrong-headed. He did nothing wrong, either on the field or off of it. The D'Backs had their particular organizational philosophy and decided Upton didn't fit in. OK, fair enough, even if that decision was based on a hopelessly vague and ephemeral set of criteria. OK, fair enough. But the idea that the Diamondbacks just had to trade Justin Upton because he didn't want to play for them has no basis in reality.
 
MadduxFanII said:
Well, Upton didn't have much choice. He was signed for three more years. And, you know, maybe he would have been less enthusiastic about leaving if the organization hadn't spent the winter desperately trying to trade him, and whispering about his attitude and lack of grit.

And not even the Diamondbacks accused him of failing to play hard. I have no doubt that, if the organization had decided after all the trade rumors to hold on to Upton, he would have played hard for them this year.

Blaming that trade on Upton is wrong-headed. He did nothing wrong, either on the field or off of it. The D'Backs had their particular organizational philosophy and decided Upton didn't fit in. OK, fair enough, even if that decision was based on a hopelessly vague and ephemeral set of criteria. OK, fair enough. But the idea that the Diamondbacks just had to trade Justin Upton because he didn't want to play for them has no basis in reality.
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I am probably closer to situation. Being he grew up 10 mins from my house. From the talk here, he just FOdidnt care to be there. And with him not performing last year, there was zero shot they were going to bring him back. They didn't want his influence in the clubhouse

Just saying what the talk is with his peeps
 
gilesfan said:
I am probably closer to situation. Being he grew up 10 mins from my house. From the talk here, he just FOdidnt care to be there. And with him not performing last year, there was zero shot they were going to bring him back. They didn't want his influence in the clubhouse

Just saying what the talk is with his peeps
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His "influence in the clubhouse?" My god, Justin Upton is a sorcerer!
 
gilesfan said:
I am probably closer to situation. Being he grew up 10 mins from my house. From the talk here, he just FOdidnt care to be there. And with him not performing last year, there was zero shot they were going to bring him back. They didn't want his influence in the clubhouse

Just saying what the talk is with his peeps
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If he knew he wouldnt be back in Phoenix and didnt want to be a D Back, why did he build his mansion there last year? Just curious. Weather? Tidewater is a nice place too. Much nicer than Atlanta.
 
What's scary is Upton has untapped potential. He's just entering his prime, he could be in line for some special years here. It was a great trade for the Braves, as much as we loved Prado it was a no brainer. The fact that Chris Johnson has been so good makes it even better. It was highway robbery. Hopefully Upton can learn to be more consistent in the next few years. In April and August he has been a lot of fun to watch.
 
The Dbacks problem this year has been pitching. 9th in ERA, 3 of their starters have been disappointments, and then one traded for peanuts, and the bullpen has 14 losses. All of that would have been unaffected by the trade.
 
Ariz also got Drury, Spruill, and Ahmed so there's more time to evaluate the trade. Spruill could still develop into a ML starter, he's pretty close now. As could Delgado, obviously. Drury and Ahmed are long shots. Include Prado and they could still "win" this trade but so far we are way ahead.
 
ChapelHillMatt said:
What's scary is Upton has untapped potential. He's just entering his prime, he could be in line for some special years here. It was a great trade for the Braves, as much as we loved Prado it was a no brainer. The fact that Chris Johnson has been so good makes it even better. It was highway robbery. Hopefully Upton can learn to be more consistent in the next few years. In April and August he has been a lot of fun to watch.
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Right now it looks good but I wouldn't call it highway robbery. Drury is having a great year and could end up being a really good prospect and Delgado will be a decent pitcher.
 
I will call it highway robbery. Prado is a good role player but Justin can be a star player on a championship team. The difference between them is when Prado is hot he hits a lot of singles and doubles but when Upton is hot he hits a lot of homers. Homers dont require anyone else to be on base to drive in runs or anyone behind him to knock him in. Like last nights game Justin ended it with one swing. Prado slumps just like Justin but we are one Justin Upton hot streak in October away from a championship. Prado could never do that.
 
My definition of highway robbery is Vince Moore, Donnie Elliot, and Melvin Nieves for Fred McGriff (we win) or Dale Murphy and Tommy Greene for Jeff Parrett, Victor Rosario, and Jim Vatcher (we lose).

We won the trade on balance and there's no arguing that Upton provides a lot more impact than Prado. Chris Johnson was slated to platoon with Francisco when the season opened, so that's a big windfall for us. D-Backs did get two pretty good pitching prospects, one of whom (Delgado) will likely be at least a mid-rotation starter and the other (Spruill) who has a chance to be a back-end starter or decent bullpen guy. Add Ahmed (who isn't hitting at all in AA) who projects as a utility guy and the big question mark, Drury (who I really like as a prospect, but has some red flags) and it's not like a Brinks Job. I think the difference is that Upton clearly looks like the missing piece to the Braves' puzzle and because of that, the trade looks woefully out of balance. If Upton wasn't going to play in Arizona, I think the D-Backs at least got value within the realm of reason for him.
 
Well not only did we get Upton but Chris Johnson has been better than the main piece we gave the DBacks in Prado. I liked Delgado but where does he fit on this team right now? The deal was thought to be a steal at the time of the trade by virtually everyone and although you could say Justin has not quite lived up to what we all thought he could be Johnson has far exceeded anyones wildest dreams. I think they sold low on him, the Rays got a far better return for Shields in my opinion.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Well not only did we get Upton but Chris Johnson has been better than the main piece we gave the DBacks in Prado. I liked Delgado but where does he fit on this team right now? The deal was thought to be a steal at the time of the trade by virtually everyone and although you could say Justin has not quite lived up to what we all thought he could be Johnson has far exceeded anyones wildest dreams. I think they sold low on him, the Rays got a far better return for Shields in my opinion.
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It was either Julio or Delgado, and we kept the better pitcher.

I agree they sold low on him, not sure about highway robbery though.
 
Prado has been GREAT for Arizona since the start of July. He was having new team jitters. We still got the best player in the deal but the D-Backs are not going to be upset because they having Prado for 4 more years and Delgado for five more years. Then if they get anything out of Spruill/Ahmed/Drury its just icing on the cake. It was time for the D-backs and Upton to part ways.
 
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