7/3 SUNDAY MINORS FINAL: A trul;y wretched, gawdawful off. day

If we stay with what is currently available within the system here is my take on our lineup in 2018:

C--below average
1B-above average
2B--above average
SS--above average
3B--below average
LF--below average
CF--average
RF--above average

This is overall value, incorporating defense, hitting and baserunning.

I might add there are degrees of above and below average. Guys like Peterson and Ruiz could be below average if the peer group is major league regulars at their position, but they could still help us if they are better than the alternatives.
 
auyushu said:
Good grief, whole lot of people putting words in my mouth in this thread. Never said anything about a bust, just said the chances of him becoming an above average player are very small, and he's shown absolutely no signs of it so far. I think he has a very good chance of being a 1-2 WAR player (same for Ruiz), but that's not above average, and our batting lineup can't really afford more of those.
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Fair enough, but didn't you also say if the Braves were counting on him and Ruiz as major league players the franchise was in trouble (If that was someone else, sorry)? that suggests a certain feeling.

Also, you said he wasn't particularly young for the level, but it appears that he is still young for the level. He's not as young as Miguel Cabrera was, but if he's only faced one or two pitchers who was younger in his AA career...

I think he's as likely to end up .280 15-20 HR as the next non generational talent. Which might not be a particularly likely result, but I don't think anything to date has taken that off the table.
 
Southcack77 said:
Fair enough, but didn't you also say if the Braves were counting on him and Ruiz as major league players the franchise was in trouble (If that was someone else, sorry)? that suggests a certain feeling.
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I think you are referring to Enscheff's post, but I mostly agree with him there. Our offense has been the worst in baseball the last two years, adding those two as starters isn't going to help matters much. If they are starting for us that means our offense is going to be woeful for the next few years. I think Peterson is the type of player who would be great in LF for the Red Sox as a cheap slightly above replacement level player, but it's hard to squeeze those players in when your entire offense is filled with those players. Not that they wouldn't be decent upgrades over the scrubs we are running out there now, but having them there just bascially seals the deal that our offense is going to be bottom third or bottom quarter in baseball, no matter how well Albies and Swanson play.

And I said he wasn't young for a prospect that has a chance to make it in MLB, not for the level itself. He's definitely younger based on average age, but that includes alot of career minor leaguers that will never touch the majors. Any decent prospect (particularly a high school prospect) is hitting AA at 21 or 22, or they aren't really a major prospect. If you are hitting AA at 23 or 24 you have struggled badly at lower levels and had to repeat levels, and aren't really a top prospect. Most top prospects are at least hitting AAA by the end of their age 23 year, so I consider Peterson to simply be on track. I'm sure most of the legit pitchers he's facing are 22, but I don't see 6 months to a year of age making that much different there in AA, it's not like we are talking about Albies facing AA or AAA pitchers here.
 
nsacpi said:
If we stay with what is currently available within the system here is my take on our lineup in 2018:

C--below average
1B-above average
2B--above average
SS--above average
3B--below average
LF--below average
CF--average
RF--above average

This is overall value, incorporating defense, hitting and baserunning.

I might add there are degrees of above and below average. Guys like Peterson and Ruiz could be below average if the peer group is major league regulars at their position, but they could still help us if they are better than the alternatives.
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It takes a whole team on offense and you can move around production. One of the great advantages the Braves had during their dynasty is that they got a lot of production out of positions that are traditionally not offense-centric (C and CF in particular). When you do that, you don't need a whole heckuva lot out of your Lemkes and Julio Francos. Add to that if you have splice together a couple of good platoons, you can get enhance the performance of guys considered to be "average."

I'm not apologizing for the current situation nor am I saying guys like Dustin Peterson and Rio Ruiz are locks to perform at the big league level. The big thing is to build around Freeman (and hopefully Swanson and Albies).
 
Guys like Ruiz and Peterson (both Jace and Dustin) are guys that can come up to a competitive team and take over a position while they are cheap. Since the team is already good, players like that can hit 7th or 8th and not kill the team. They are the definition of fungible MLB players and are only useful while cheap.

They problem is the Braves suck. LF and and 3b are black holes that must be improved. Guys like Ruiz are not good enough to make a bad team good.

Sure, it's nice to have guys like that ready to be called up to fill holes, but to call them potential "above average players" is extremely wishful thinking. The Braves have 4 position players in the system who have a legitimate chance of being more than 2 WAR placeholders: Swanson, Albjes, Acuna, and now Maitan.
 
Enscheff said:
Guys like Ruiz and Peterson (both Jace and Dustin) are guys that can come up to a competitive team and take over a position while they are cheap. Since the team is already good, players like that can hit 7th or 8th and not kill the team. They are the definition of fungible MLB players and are only useful while cheap.

They problem is the Braves suck. LF and and 3b are black holes that must be improved. Guys like Ruiz are not good enough to make a bad team good.

Sure, it's nice to have guys like that ready to be called up to fill holes, but to call them potential "above average players" is extremely wishful thinking. The Braves have 4 position players in the system who have a legitimate chance of being more than 2 WAR placeholders: Swanson, Albjes, Acuna, and now Maitan.
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And not to hijack, but I think this is another clear reason of why we cannot keep Teheran.
 
50PoundHead said:
It takes a whole team on offense and you can move around production. One of the great advantages the Braves had during their dynasty is that they got a lot of production out of positions that are traditionally not offense-centric (C and CF in particular). When you do that, you don't need a whole heckuva lot out of your Lemkes and Julio Francos. Add to that if you have splice together a couple of good platoons, you can get enhance the performance of guys considered to be "average."

I'm not apologizing for the current situation nor am I saying guys like Dustin Peterson and Rio Ruiz are locks to perform at the big league level. The big thing is to build around Freeman (and hopefully Swanson and Albies).
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The good Braves team also had a Chipper Jones and his CAREER .900+ OPS anchoring the middle of the lineup. I don't think quite appreciate how good Chopper was consistently for a LONG time. His average year was better than any single year any Braves player has posted since he retired.

A bunch of players like Freeman and Swanson aren't going to make up for some below average players like Chipper did.
 
auyushu said:
Most of our starters are right around 100 wRC+, outside of Inciarte, Garcia, and Aybar (and Mallex and Nick are slightly below). So basically dead average for most of them offensively. Inciarte is part of the problem, he's not a great bat, basically the CF/RF version of Simba right now. Which would be fine if we had two more Freddie Freeman's in the lineup, but we don't.

We basically have Freddie, a couple of black holes offensively, and a bunch of average bats.

I'm not saying Peterson or Ruiz wouldn't upgrades over the crap we are putting out there in LF and 3B right now, cause they have a good chance to be, but if we are putting them out there we're going to have a bottom 5 offense still.
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I was talking about overall value tho, not just offense. Inciarte and Freeman are the only two guys who project over 2 WARover 600/PA's, the rest project at or below 2. If we can get a couple more 2's and add a 3 and a 4+, we'd be in pretty good shape.
 
Enscheff said:
Guys like Ruiz and Peterson (both Jace and Dustin) are guys that can come up to a competitive team and take over a position while they are cheap. Since the team is already good, players like that can hit 7th or 8th and not kill the team. They are the definition of fungible MLB players and are only useful while cheap.

They problem is the Braves suck. LF and and 3b are black holes that must be improved. Guys like Ruiz are not good enough to make a bad team good.

Sure, it's nice to have guys like that ready to be called up to fill holes, but to call them potential "above average players" is extremely wishful thinking. The Braves have 4 position players in the system who have a legitimate chance of being more than 2 WAR placeholders: Swanson, Albjes, Acuna, and now Maitan.
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I think when you consider Riley's age and power he has to be mentioned has having the potential as well. Cumberland too per his bat (if he can stick at catcher). I'm not ready to look at a bad K rate at age 19 and cast a guy off already. Not in the lower levels.
 
With Ruiz first half nearly in the books, is he a guy that could sneak into some lists? Peterson?
 
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