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thethe said:
Is it possible that when his career is over that Miguel Cabrera will go down as the greatest hitter of all time?
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No.

He's currently at a 154 wRC+

Ruth 197
Williams 188
Mick 170

The guy to watch is Trout and if he can keep this level of production up
 
I don't see how anyone can think Trout will be a better hitter than Miggy. Trout benefits from his speed but that should have no bearing on his ability to hit a baseball.
 
If we're talking pure hitting, Miggy > Trout.

As overall players, Trout is better.

Not sure if Miggy will be the best ever though when said and done as a hitter but dude is amazing.
 
thethe said:
I don't see how anyone can think Trout will be a better hitter than Miggy. Trout benefits from his speed but that should have no bearing on his ability to hit a baseball.
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Trout has a career 163 wRC+ His last 2 season he's at 166 and 178. Miggy has only posted those level seasons the last 4 years when he took his next step. If Trout has a similar second gear watch out. Of course this could be the best ball he plays in his career. But in the history of baseball, through the age of 22, Mike Trout is currently 4th in wRC+.

The top 5 in order with wRC+ are

1. Shoeless Joe 181
2. Teddy Ballgame 177
3. Stan Musial 170
4. Mike Trout 163
5. Jimmie Foxx

Aka Mike Trout is having a damn fine start to his career that most have never seen before. He's started his career hitting better than Pujols, Ott, Hornsby, Aaron, etc.

I'm not saying he'll be for sure a superstar. But Trout is off to the most impressive start a baseball player has been on in ages.
 
zitothebrave said:
He's hitting .316/.400/.548

What the frak more do you want?
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He will never touch the levels of hitting a baseball that Miggy is doing right now.

You quote stats sometimes in response to other claims which makes me question whether or not you really understand what the stat is saying.
 
thethe said:
He will never touch the levels of hitting a baseball that Miggy is doing right now.

You quote stats sometimes in response to other claims which makes me question whether or not you really understand what the stat is saying.
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Based on what? You're presumptions? When Miggy was under 22 he had a slash line of .300/.366/.523 during a much more hitter friendly era.

Seriously if you choose not to acknowledge how special Trout has been that's fine. I don't care. Just remember Harper was gonna crush him this year!!!!
 
zitothebrave said:
Based on what? You're presumptions? When Miggy was under 22 he had a slash line of .300/.366/.523 during a much more hitter friendly era.

Seriously if you choose not to acknowledge how special Trout has been that's fine. I don't care. Just remember Harper was gonna crush him this year!!!!
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Wait a second...how am I not acknowledging just how incredible Trouts start to his career was? This is now what the issue is at all. Stop changing the topic of the conversation because you know you were wrong to use wRC as an argumentative piece.

The era that he played in means nothing if he was clean. If anything, it would have been harder for him to hit than it was now if the assumption is less players were doing steroids. Also, how do we know if either Cabrera or Trout are doing PED's now? We don't so you can't use that argument at all until its been proven that one player has cheated.

Back to the actual argument...do you believe that Trout will hit for what Cabrera is hitting for now? Because if you do, coupled with his speed and ability to defend you are stating that you think Trout will be the best baseball player of all time. Is that what you are saying?

And again, prior to Harper getting hurt he was having a spectacular year. So while you think you are cute to call me out on that as some others have I stick by my statement in ssaying that I believe Harper is a better hitter (WHEN HEALTHY) and will prove that out for the next 10-15 years.
 
You haven't acknowledged it yet when you say things like "Trout benefits from his speed but that should have no bearing on his ability to hit a baseball. "

The era he played in means everything. Even if he was clean the pitching was not as dominant as it is now. Anyone with 2 eyes and a radar gun can tell you that. There are probably as many guys cheating now as there ever were before, just doing it in different ways now.

As far as Trout hitting like Miggy, who knows. Know one thought Miggy woudl hit like Miggy is now the 10 years ago or so when he was Trout's age. Trout has all of the ability in the world. Good power, great swing skills, great speed, etc. There is really no weakness to Trout's game. Only way he can really improve on his game is cutting down on his Ks.

And wRC+ is the perfect stat to use because it's the only stat that weighs eras, park factors, and everything else in a way that actually represents value.

Harper pre-injury had a .973 OPS and was falling.

What's the excuse for his performance lately? Usually when guys come back from injury they don't stink for 2 months.
 
zitothebrave said:
You haven't acknowledged it yet when you say things like "Trout benefits from his speed but that should have no bearing on his ability to hit a baseball. "

The era he played in means everything. Even if he was clean the pitching was not as dominant as it is now. Anyone with 2 eyes and a radar gun can tell you that. There are probably as many guys cheating now as there ever were before, just doing it in different ways now.

As far as Trout hitting like Miggy, who knows. Know one thought Miggy woudl hit like Miggy is now the 10 years ago or so when he was Trout's age. Trout has all of the ability in the world. Good power, great swing skills, great speed, etc. There is really no weakness to Trout's game. Only way he can really improve on his game is cutting down on his Ks.

And wRC+ is the perfect stat to use because it's the only stat that weighs eras, park factors, and everything else in a way that actually represents value.

Harper pre-injury had a .973 OPS and was falling.

What's the excuse for his performance lately? Usually when guys come back from injury they don't stink for 2 months.
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First off, I love Trout as a player. Probably one of my top 5 players. I have a dynasty league where I traded Justin Upton for him three years ago so trust me I'm loving every bit of Trout being either best or second best player in baseball. As a sidenote, I also got Corey Hart/Julio Tehearn/Arodys Vizcaino in that deal (MAJOR WIN!!).

And no, wRC+ is not the best stat to use because speed is an underlying positive that Cabrera doesn't benefit from. When we are talking about HITTING A BASEBALL, we are not talking about a players ability to stretch a single into a double or a double into a triple. That should have absolutely ZERO bearing on the players ability to hit. And, IIRC wRC+ also has an element in there to account for successful stolen bases so yet antoher reason why using it to gauge hitting ability just proves your lack of understanding when using it in this argument.

If you watched Harper early in the year and think he is moving around the same way or having then more power to you. I am watching someone that is struggling to give 100% because of nagging pains. Thats part of the game obviously but we will see who was right in the future. Harper has more power and IMO has a better eye at the plate. I believe he will be the better HITTER.
 
thethe said:
First off, I love Trout as a player. Probably one of my top 5 players. I have a dynasty league where I traded Justin Upton for him three years ago so trust me I'm loving every bit of Trout being either best or second best player in baseball. As a sidenote, I also got Corey Hart/Julio Tehearn/Arodys Vizcaino in that deal (MAJOR WIN!!).

And no, wRC+ is not the best stat to use because speed is an underlying positive that Cabrera doesn't benefit from. When we are talking about HITTING A BASEBALL, we are not talking about a players ability to stretch a single into a double or a double into a triple. That should have absolutely ZERO bearing on the players ability to hit. And, IIRC wRC+ also has an element in there to account for successful stolen bases so yet antoher reason why using it to gauge hitting ability just proves your lack of understanding when using it in this argument.

If you watched Harper early in the year and think he is moving around the same way or having then more power to you. I am watching someone that is struggling to give 100% because of nagging pains. Thats part of the game obviously but we will see who was right in the future. Harper has more power and IMO has a better eye at the plate. I believe he will be the better HITTER.
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So what do you say we judge them on? If we cannot use their offensive value what would we do? And wRC+ doesn't factor in stolen bases. It only factors in hits, walks, HBP, and reaching on error. But then again it's totally like you to just bash a stat without understanding how it works.

I watched Harper early and now, he's on a down swing.
 
zitothebrave said:
So what do you say we judge them on? If we cannot use their offensive value what would we do? And wRC+ doesn't factor in stolen bases. It only factors in hits, walks, HBP, and reaching on error. But then again it's totally like you to just bash a stat without understanding how it works.

I watched Harper early and now, he's on a down swing.
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Ok, so they took out that element less than a year ago. My mistake. It still is a stat that will be kinder to players with speed and still shows your lack of understanding on how to apply it to a argument. I don't know if there is a "best" stat to use. You always just want to run to stats to justify anything. That is part of the equation. All I know is that Cabrera one of the top 2 most dominant hitters I have ever seen (Pujols being the other). Trout is not on that level. Now maybe he gets there but for now you can't put him in that class.
 
You have no clue how he will hit. Saying he will never hit at Miguel levels is ridiculous. You can't predict the future guy.
 
LOL at thethe. "Trout will never hit like Cabrera is now."

Why? BC you say so? He is already a better hitter than Miggy was at the same age, so I'm not sure why you would say that. Then again, you did think Francouer was a HOF and Harper is better than Trout, and Craptree has the best hands since Rice, so maybe you're just trolling.
 
sturg33 said:
LOL at thethe. "Trout will never hit like Cabrera is now."

Why? BC you say so? He is already a better hitter than Miggy was at the same age, so I'm not sure why you would say that. Then again, you did think Francouer was a HOF and Harper is better than Trout, and Craptree has the best hands since Rice, so maybe you're just trolling.
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Harper was better than Trout at 19 so what should I infer from your post?
 
It always seems as though A-Rod handles himself like a total pro on the field. Bryce Harper, take notes.
 
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