sturg33
I
The Marlins tried a few years ago...
The Padres tried two years ago
The Diamondbacks tried last year
Trade Deadline: What are you willing to do?
- Thread starter Horsehide Harry
- Start date
The Marlins tried a few years ago...
The Padres tried two years ago
The Diamondbacks tried last year
Careful. Anything resembling confidence in the FO is generally frowned upon here!
I like what the Padres did. I don't think they were going for it. That's just what you sell to the public for attendance. They traded away talent that had a "cap" for talent that had high upside. They sold high and bought low where they could and used their budget to it's max to take on payroll.
I'd like to do something along those lines this offseason. You'll have some things backfire, but you'll hit on some others.
I see Coppy as that riverboat gambler who is chomping at the bit with the resources he has right now.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
There is a difference between realists and fantasists where it comes to having the talent to win. Wanting something bad doesn't make it remotely possible.
sturg33
I
The Padres emptied the farm to bring in folks like Kemp, Myers, Norris, Kimbrel, and spent a ton on James Shields.
They've already dumped Kimbrel and Shields. Kemp is an albatross.
They set themselves back.
The Padres are in a much better situation than they were two years ago. They got way more for Kimbrel than they gave up. They could get more for Myers than they paid if they wanted to. They could get back what they paid for Kemp, and possibly a bit more. They'll probably get more for Norris than they gave up.
Shields was a backfire. They signed him to a backloaded contract hoping he'd have a big year and could flip him, but that did not happen.
I would say Russell Martin is as athletic as Lucroy. He signed for 5/82 after his age 31 season. He is now playing in his age 33 season. Go take a look at how his age 33 season is going, and tell me if you would be stoked to be paying him $20M per year for his upcoming age 34-36 seasons.
I'll wait eagerly for your reply.
sturg33
I
The point is trying to go from worst to first in one offseason is nearly impossible.
I agree for themost part, but I'm not sure the Pads get the equivalent of Joe Ross and Trea Turner for WIl Myers right now.
Of course it is. I don't think anyone thinks we're going to do a worse to first ala 1991 again and be in the World Series. I do think we will be competitive though, and make moves that make us better now without compromising the future. We'll also sell a lot of tickets which will help our future payroll situation. I don't see us punting the next two seasons and waiting for our A ball players to mature before we try to win.
The Braves are currently on pace to win 55 games. They are quite possibly the worst team of this young millennium. There is simply no way a team improves by 30-35 wins in a single offseason.
If all the following things happened, the Braves MIGHT be an 85 win team, and just miss the WC game:
1. Trade for Lucroy.
2. Sign Cespedes for LF.
3. Sign Desmond for 3B.
4. Acquire one more 3 WAR starting pitcher.
5. Promote Swanson and Albies.
6. All acquisitions and Freeman and Teheran at least repeat their 2016 performance.
7. Folty and Wisler take steps forward to be 2+ WAR pitchers.
If ALL those things happen, the Braves can be an 85 win team next year. Needless to say, all of those things will most certainly not happen.
This team isn't going from 55 wins this year to 85-90 wins next year, no matter how much you want it to happen. They can, and should, incrementally improve to 70+ wins with some modest FA acquisitions and promotions, and then challenge for 85+ wins in 2018.
The amount of talent required to obtain Lucroy for 14 months would completely undo all the rebuilding they just spent years doing. So unless Coppy somehow steals Lucroy, acquiring him would be a terrible, horrible, idea.
Literally nobody has suggested that the Braves have the potential to go from worst to first next year. Becoming a competitive team is a step on the way to becoming a contender. I think the Braves expected to be a little bit better this year and are not happy with the way it has turned out. With a new stadium coming next year, I think they want to be notably better. I don't know what that means in terms of record, but they will do whatever they can to be better. It will also allow them to point at when they turned a corner on the rebuild.
This is about more than just the numbers. There is an emotional component to it as well. They want to be able to point to an exciting young team on an upward trending path of progression. The long term future is already bright with the lower minors loaded with talent. What happens next year needs to send a message of progress.
I don't see them punting another year, even if the numbers say it might work out better. Gotta send a message.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Dave Cameron literally just said the same thing I did over on FG. He thinks even a 15 game improvement is unrealistic, much less 30:
Gary: Can the Braves win around 80 games next year? Swanson/Albies will be up, $60 million to spend this offseason on the offense in FA and trades, plus Folty coming on?
Dave Cameron: Can they? Sure, anything can happen. But this is a ~65 win team right now. Asking for a 15 win true talent bump is probably unrealistic.
He is wrong about one thing though, this is NOT a 65 win team now.
Gary: Can the Braves win around 80 games next year? Swanson/Albies will be up, $60 million to spend this offseason on the offense in FA and trades, plus Folty coming on?
Dave Cameron: Can they? Sure, anything can happen. But this is a ~65 win team right now. Asking for a 15 win true talent bump is probably unrealistic.
He is wrong about one thing though, this is NOT a 65 win team now.
I don't think the Braves totally see it that way. I am trying to read where they are... not just expressing an opinion.
I know they don't want to skip steps in the rebuild, but I think they want to be better next year.
Wanting something doesn't make it happen. Like them not wanting to repeat 2015 in 2016.
sturg33
I
They may not be that great at evaluating realistic possibilities... they told us last year's team would be more "fun to watch"... then they took their collective vow to never last year happen again... and here we are somehow much worse.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Wow... You get a pat on the back. Russell Martin had a career year last year and has been extremely erratic year to year. During his prime he was a consistent sub .700 OPS player. Lucroy has already had 2-3 years better then Martin has ever had. Not a good comparison.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
You're right... They probably got to where they are by being compete idiots. Again. It doesn't kill the rebuild. In 3-5 years when the contracts are about up. The young talent is ready. No one seems to want to address that.