Is There Anyone Out There...

We should not sign any of those old players they will look for 3 to 4 years contracts. In a few years we will talking the same way we been talking about Markakis.
 
chop2chip said:
Despite our overall disagreement on the Kemp acquisition in general, I agree with this 100%.
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Me too, although I don't think an 18 m dollar commitment is that cheap and I'm not willing to consider it a 12 million dollar commitment because Oliveira was sunk cost, because that still doesn't really make sense.
 
Southcack77 said:
Me too, although I don't think an 18 m dollar commitment is that cheap and I'm not willing to consider it a 12 million dollar commitment because Oliveira was sunk cost, because that still doesn't really make sense.
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Let alone $8.5 with the Dodger cash included...
 
KB21 said:
The Braves are in year 2 of the rebuild and have built one of the strongest farm systems in baseball. It starts there.

Think about God's gift to GMs, Theo Epstein. It took him 5 years to build up the Cubs.
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Yeah, no. Not that I consider him the best GM in baseball or anything, but he took over for the 2012 Cubs season, and during his 4th year (2015) he had them in the NLCS. We'll be lucky to be .500 in our 4th year year under the three John's regime (and I'm not saying that to be down on the rebuild, I've been mostly pleased, it's just way too early to judge it fully).
 
Southcack77 said:
As I understand it, his salary is 21m and the Braves only got a total of about 3 million a year. that leaves 18, I think. Is that right, do you know?
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There is nothing complicated about this. The Braves took on an additional $25.5M in salary over 3 years when they acquired Kemp. It is exactly the same as continuing to pay Olivera, DFAing him themselves, and signing Kemp for 3/25.5.

You seem to be the only person on this board that fails to grasp the concept, and when that's the case it is a very good indication you are wrong...not everyone else.
 
zitothebrave said:
What makes it weird is the issues of multiple plans. The Johnson trade makes sense if your goal is to free up cash after 2016, but then to make a trade for Kemp.

That's really been my issues with the rebuild.

We cut bait with our expensive vets in Justin, Jason, Kimbrel, etc. but then sign an expensive vet in Markakis. Trading prospects and a young pitcher for an old prospect who was owed a lot of money. And then trading that person for an old massively overpaid vet.

Really if we didn't sign Markakis and if we didn't trade for Olivera we'd be in a great position. Imagine every other move that happened and this is our theoretical team right now.

Rotation

Julio

Wood

Folty

Wisler

Jenkins

C - Flowers

1B - Freeman

2B - Jace

3B - Garcia

SS - Aybar

LF - Mallex

CF - Ender

RF - Francoeur (or whoever, don't care)

Then we open up next year with the potential team largely the same but add in a value FA signing like Josh Reddick or Jose Bautista who could be had for value deals and add in Ozzie at SS, possibly Dustin in LF instead of a FA. Make a big package offer for Josh Donaldson and extend him.

Braves could roll into 2018 with a team something like

Julio

Folty

WIsler

Sims

Blair

Newcomb

Toussaint

Jenkins

Bird

Point being lots of arms who could be ready in 2 years, not even factoring a fast development from Allard or Soroka. No need to spend money on SP unload Wood for best available prospects.

Lineup wehave an issue with C after that though things look really good

1B - Freeman

2B - Ozzie

3B - Donaldson

SS - Swanson

And an OF of either

LF - Mallex

CF - Ender

RF - Reddick (aka no fly zone)

LF - Bautista

CF - Mallex

RF - Ender

LF - Peterson

CF - Mallex

RF - Ender

That is a solid potential team there. ANd it's somewhat realistic for it to happen. Risk is that we could have no quality veteran pitchers aside from Julio, but I'm fine with that. if we have 4 quality pitchers and a revolving door for the last, we'll be fine.
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So you're not holding your breath about a McCann homecoming?
 
* Also remember that Zeets was the one who posted a Jair Jurrjens for Kemp trade proposal over at Scout. :JSIDK:

Don't get me wrong. Would've loved for that to have happened, but even when JJ should've been an NL All Star Game starter, there wasn't enough experience to pump his value that high.
 
Realistic any one here believe that we have a chance to sign a guy like Manny Machado,Nolan Arenado, AJ Pollock. I really believe Machado stay at Baltimore, Arenado there is a chance to get trade and Aj Pollock maybe if we offer some prospects. Bryce Harper and Mike Trout i really believe is very unrealistic.
 
Ozzie Swanson said:
Agreed. People can question the decision to rebuild and how the front office has gone about the process but there is no question that we have dodged bullets by deciding to get rid of JHey, JUpton, Gattis, and others. Even if the things we got in return weren't the best we have still done a good job rebuilding our farm system and avoided giving crippling salaries to aging/struggling players (besides Markakis who has still performed at a fairly average level).
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Still feel that in some of the deals to get rid of Gattis, Upton, Heyward, Kimbrel, etc we went for quantity over quality, and now that it's appearing most of that isn't going to pan out for much. Could have aimed for more premium talents. That's assuming market value reflected that.
 
I don't think we went for quantity.

We don't know the offers. People aren't giving up top guys for rentals or flawed players.

Fried was a quality guy. Only available bc of injury. Folty and Ruiz were highly ranked.

Simmons and attaching bj to ck are my complaints. Plus Olivera deal and then kemp deal.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I don't think we went for quantity.

We don't know the offers. People aren't giving up top guys for rentals or flawed players.

Fried was a quality guy. Only available bc of injury. Folty and Ruiz were highly ranked.

Simmons and attaching bj to ck are my complaints. Plus Olivera deal and then kemp deal.
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Simmons was amazing with the glove but the bat was awful. We are not going to win every single trade. I feel we are in a very good situation now. We have some money now. We have a strong bullpen and we have the young starting pitchers. We dont need to look for the Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami,Ervin Santana, Aaron Harang and all of those old pitchers that never help the braves. We are in a great position.
 
I hope you are right. But I'm expecting us to sign a Lowe at catcher a kk at 3b and watch neck and kemp turn to pumkins

I also expect us to sign vet arms bc the johns seem to care about that
 
zbhargrove said:
We are paying $8 mil a year for Kemp. That's not very expensive. The improvement of Reddick or Bautista hardly moves the needle. Donaldson is still one of the best players in baseball. Even if it's just one year it's going to take a huge package.
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We are not paying 8M a year for Kemp. That's some heavily cooked numbers based on money saved from Olivera. Kemp makes 21.5M a year over 3 years and that Cash we got back is about 10M. Though it's not confirmed. Anyway you slice it, it's nowhere close to 8M a year. Stop being obtuse as my scenario doesn't involve our massive overpay for Olivera.
 
clvclv said:
Boy oh boy...I sure would love to have some of whatever you're smoking.
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What makes you think Bautista takes more than 3/39? He's older, he's currently making 14M a season. Sure market has gone up a lot since he signed his last deal, but everyone knows the deal on him and I don't think anyone will be chomping at the bit to pay him a fortune. Find me a list of big contracts to 35+ year old free agents. I'll be waiting.
 
Enscheff said:
There is nothing complicated about this. The Braves took on an additional $25.5M in salary over 3 years when they acquired Kemp. It is exactly the same as continuing to pay Olivera, DFAing him themselves, and signing Kemp for 3/25.5.

You seem to be the only person on this board that fails to grasp the concept, and when that's the case it is a very good indication you are wrong...not everyone else.
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I think what everyone grasps is that you are a jackass.

You did not answer my question perhaps because I wasn't talking to you. I didn't ask about additional payroll, I was asking about how much the Dodgers sent over.

I don't care about the front office's frame of the trade.
 
zitothebrave said:
What makes you think Bautista takes more than 3/39? He's older, he's currently making 14M a season. Sure market has gone up a lot since he signed his last deal, but everyone knows the deal on him and I don't think anyone will be chomping at the bit to pay him a fortune. Find me a list of big contracts to 35+ year old free agents. I'll be waiting.
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You suggested "heck, could maybe be much cheaper like 3/30". If you continue to read my next post, you'll see that I mentioned I think you're absolutely right that he's not going to get anywhere close to what he was rumored to be looking for before the season. I just don't think there's any way he'll take 3/30 - I'm not sure he wouldn't walk away before doing that.
 
ixiXSolidXixi said:
Simmons was amazing with the glove but the bat was awful. We are not going to win every single trade. I feel we are in a very good situation now. We have some money now. We have a strong bullpen and we have the young starting pitchers. We dont need to look for the Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami,Ervin Santana, Aaron Harang and all of those old pitchers that never help the braves. We are in a great position.
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I believe the braves will need to acquire a proven starter at some point to contend.
 
Southcack77 said:
I think what everyone grasps is that you are a jackass.

You did not answer my question perhaps because I wasn't talking to you. I didn't ask about additional payroll, I was asking about how much the Dodgers sent over.

I don't care about the front office's frame of the trade.
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Dodgers are sending 3.5 million per year. So 18 million a year for Kemp. But he's not wrong. The added salary comes out to a little over 8 million a year for 3 years.
 
thewupk said:
Dodgers are sending 3.5 million per year. So 18 million a year for Kemp. But he's not wrong. The added salary comes out to a little over 8 million a year for 3 years.
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I guess what I'm asking is :

Base salary of 21.5

Dodgers 3.5

Net 18 m.

I do understand the sunk cost frame of another 6 million so that takes you to 12 million more in payroll.

( I don't see the relevance of the sunk cost to the separate decision to take on kemp. That's to me the front office's way of putting a frame on the trade that makes taking on the salary more appealing, but it is really just a decision to pay kemp whatever they will pay him as opposed to just cutting Ollie. Which is fine, I don't know that I hate the decision. (Also the front office presented the math disregarding the increase to this year's payroll which was a bit more framing, but nothing major))

I think there has been some confusion in my reading of the reports whether Padres were sending an additional 3 million cash or not. I thought the reporting concluded that they didn't.

So I have it at 12 million more and that's my only remaining confusion about the trade.
 
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