3rd Debate

sturg33 said:
Sigh... it's sad that the teachers of today actually believe what they do

The federal reserve created the boom/bust cycle in the 20s. They artificially lowered interest rates (sound familiar?) and increased the money supply by 61% in the 20's.

This is not what free market capitalism is. And I assume you know this.
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Yes, we are truly a sad lot, all we do is help build the future and we don't even "create any wealth, at least not directly". We only help enable others to do so.
 
50PoundHead said:
That was tried in The Gilded Age and found wanting. As the people moved from the country to the city, there simply wasn't enough opportunity to keep everyone afloat and the farm economy started its steady descent as an employer then, leaving people with neither capital or cash.
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Yeah, good luck dude. Everybody wants the brand of "free market capitalism" that enables them to accumulate enough outrageous wealth to qualify to join the asshats of the Gilded Age. As you well know, true free market capitalism won't work, just like communism won't work, or total any type of system won't work because the sinful nature of man always gets in the way and causes man to cheat, steal from, abuse, and generally mistreat his fellow man, while at the same time denying he's doing anything wrong and lamenting why "those lazy bastards want to tax the wealth I created fair and square".
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Yeah, good luck dude. Everybody wants the brand of "free market capitalism" that enables them to accumulate enough outrageous wealth to qualify to join the asshats of the Gilded Age. As you well know, true free market capitalism won't work, just like communism won't work, or total any type of system won't work because the sinful nature of man always gets in the way and causes man to cheat, steal from, abuse, and generally mistreat his fellow man, while at the same time denying he's doing anything wrong and lamenting why "those lazy bastards want to tax the wealth I created fair and square".
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That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The logical end of both capitalism and communism is that wealth and power will be concentrated in the hands of the very few.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I still think a lot of this may hinge on what evangelicals, particularly in these Midwestern states decide to do. If we're to believe that so many stayed home in 2012, I think they could come out this year. There are also probably a whole lot of people who would never publicly say they are voting for Trump but will do so anyway.
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^^^ You may be on to something and last night's Hillary love-affair with abortion has the distinct potential to push more of the ones who were thinking about not voting due to Trump's immorality to instead go quietly into the booth and actually vote for him. It even gave me pause (not a long one but a pause nonetheless). akMShe did not help herself out at all imho with that move. It only reinforced the weight of the pro-Trump Evangelicals' arguments...

Here's a quote from an African-American Evangelical friend after watching the debate:

'...(A) - At this point, I can't figure out a way to push the button for him and leave the polling station with a clean conscience. Many, many respected friends who bear the bloody marks of counter-cultural faithfulness can and will. They will hold their noses and do it for the perceived greater good of stopping a greater evil. I get it, feel the force of their moral logic, and even agree that one can vote for Trump with integrity. I'm just not there though the war wounds of my friends and the intuitions of many Godly women about Mr. Trump give me some pause truth be told. Though I'm not #NeverTrump, I'm about 99% sure that I won't be pulling the lever for him. For more reasons than can and should be recounted, as a presidential candidate, he is horrible.

(B) - If Trump is horrible, Clinton is hellishly evil. There is simply no ethical/moral/political calculus by which I could vote for her and not have blood on my hands. Did you hear her talk about partial-birth abortion? It was incomparably ghoulish and couldn't be more so had a fiend of Hell come up from the bowels of the earth to make the case. Mrs. Clinton hates what I deeply love. She loves things I hate. And her cosmopolitan elitist disgust with people like me is palpable. I have nothing but trumpet blasts of truth for such a monstrously destructive public figure. 'Jesus is Lord' and 'I'm with her' are utterly incompatible...."
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Yeah, good luck dude. Everybody wants the brand of "free market capitalism" that enables them to accumulate enough outrageous wealth to qualify to join the asshats of the Gilded Age. As you well know, true free market capitalism won't work, just like communism won't work, or total any type of system won't work because the sinful nature of man always gets in the way and causes man to cheat, steal from, abuse, and generally mistreat his fellow man, while at the same time denying he's doing anything wrong and lamenting why "those lazy bastards want to tax the wealth I created fair and square".
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Watch out there OHawk, you are starting to sound a little like my tribe with theological talk like that.
 
FreemanFan said:
You want to eliminate virtually all of the jobs in America. Brilliant.
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i'm honestly down with a plan that gets rid of working

not sure how you got to that take but sure

i don't think we are on earth to work for meaningless currency for the small amount of time we are on earth

so i will go with your thought of getting rid of working i guess
 
50PoundHead said:
That was tried in The Gilded Age and found wanting. As the people moved from the country to the city, there simply wasn't enough opportunity to keep everyone afloat and the farm economy started its steady descent as an employer then, leaving people with neither capital or cash.
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You fool, that was still the federal reserve's fault even before their creation!

Don't forget, that time period is also why we have unions!
 
BedellBrave said:
^^^ You may be on to something and last night's Hillary love-affair with abortion has the distinct potential to push more of the ones who were thinking about not voting due to Trump's immorality to instead go quietly into the booth and actually vote for him. It even gave me pause (not a long one but a pause nonetheless). akMShe did not help herself out at all imho with that move. It only reinforced the weight of the pro-Trump Evangelicals' arguments...

Here's a quote from an African-American Evangelical friend after watching the debate:

'...(A) - At this point, I can't figure out a way to push the button for him and leave the polling station with a clean conscience. Many, many respected friends who bear the bloody marks of counter-cultural faithfulness can and will. They will hold their noses and do it for the perceived greater good of stopping a greater evil. I get it, feel the force of their moral logic, and even agree that one can vote for Trump with integrity. I'm just not there though the war wounds of my friends and the intuitions of many Godly women about Mr. Trump give me some pause truth be told. Though I'm not #NeverTrump, I'm about 99% sure that I won't be pulling the lever for him. For more reasons than can and should be recounted, as a presidential candidate, he is horrible.

(B) - If Trump is horrible, Clinton is hellishly evil. There is simply no ethical/moral/political calculus by which I could vote for her and not have blood on my hands. Did you hear her talk about partial-birth abortion? It was incomparably ghoulish and couldn't be more so had a fiend of Hell come up from the bowels of the earth to make the case. Mrs. Clinton hates what I deeply love. She loves things I hate. And her cosmopolitan elitist disgust with people like me is palpable. I have nothing but trumpet blasts of truth for such a monstrously destructive public figure. 'Jesus is Lord' and 'I'm with her' are utterly incompatible...."
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Your friend can disagree with her all he wants and doesn't have to vote for her if he doesn't want to, but he should stop with the hellishly evil stuff. No one knows what's in her heart, we can only guess. Only God knows and we'll know His thoughts on His schedule.

What I did find interesting the other day is that a recent poll of self-identified evangelicals found that they would excuse the individual moral failings of candidates if they felt the candidate would promote policies of which they approved while every other segment of the voting populace was more leery of that dichotomy. I guess we'll find out how that plays on election day.
 
One more positive from this election is the marginalization of the Evangelical.

My guess is Bedell's friend's pulpit is tax exempt ?
Meaning he is "welching" off of my tax dollars to spout judgement on the state of anothers soul. Based on her political stands.
#freestuff
 
Liberty Univ revolt against J Fallwell Jr would be one example.

The evangelicals are not driving the conversation as they have in the past 30 years

.........................................

"[If] you've run for office on family values, why wouldn't you walk away from him months ago? When you heard your nominee for president call women pigs and dogs and slobs, and grade them not for their character or their intellect, but on a scale of 1-10. You don't have to be a husband or a father to stand up for women."

—President Obama to Republicans who still support Trump
 
50PoundHead said:
Your friend can disagree with her all he wants and doesn't have to vote for her if he doesn't want to, but he should stop with the hellishly evil stuff. No one knows what's in her heart, we can only guess. Only God knows and we'll know His thoughts on His schedule.

What I did find interesting the other day is that a recent poll of self-identified evangelicals found that they would excuse the individual moral failings of candidates if they felt the candidate would promote policies of which they approved while every other segment of the voting populace was more leery of that dichotomy. I guess we'll find out how that plays on election day.
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Hellish was putting it nicely. We don't have to know what's in her heart. We have her words (and there's Luke 6:45 after all). And she has been quite clear. And her words (red meat for abortion loving folks on the Left) in that debate have given many evangelicals I know pause about NeverTrumping. That was an unforced error on her part. That's my point.
 
57Brave said:
One more positive from this election is the marginalization of the Evangelical.

My guess is Bedell's friend's pulpit is tax exempt ?
Meaning he is "welching" off of my tax dollars to spout judgement on the state of anothers soul. Based on her political stands.
#freestuff
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Another 57 classic.
 
57Brave said:
Liberty Univ revolt against J Fallwell Jr would be one example.

The evangelicals are not driving the conversation as they have in the past 30 years

.........................................

"[If] you've run for office on family values, why wouldn't you walk away from him months ago? When you heard your nominee for president call women pigs and dogs and slobs, and grade them not for their character or their intellect, but on a scale of 1-10. You don't have to be a husband or a father to stand up for women."

—President Obama to Republicans who still support Trump
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There is no single "Evangelical" position here. That's sort of the point. You've got those who are pro-Trump, pro-Hillary, NeverTrump, NeverHillary, NeverTrump-or-Hillary, as the conflict between Falwell Jr. and those Evangelical students at Liberty illustrates.

The split among the Evangelicals is very much a major issue in this race.
 
BedellBrave said:
Hellish was putting it nicely. We don't have to know what's in her heart. We have her words (and there's Luke 6:45 after all). And she has been quite clear. And her words (red meat for abortion loving folks on the Left) in that debate have given many evangelicals I know pause about NeverTrumping. That was an unforced error on her part. That's my point.
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No one on this Earth can send anyone to Hell. No one is forcing anyone to vote for her, but your buddy better check his theology because no human can send anyone to Hell regardless of what they might say or do. As a Calvinist, I thought you knew better.
 
50PoundHead said:
No one on this Earth can send anyone to Hell. No one is forcing anyone to vote for her, but your buddy better check his theology because no human can send anyone to Hell regardless of what they might say or do. As a Calvinist, I thought you knew better.
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Huh? He isn't sending her to hell nor am I. To call someone "hellishly evil" or what someone said "hellish" doesn't mean that.
 
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