Active shooter Ohio State campus

BedellBrave said:
Was recently on the other side of the globe in a Christian hospital serving a Muslim majority community with compassion and integrity. Muslim medical doctors and nurses want to work there (understandably so). Watched as a one such doctor used some of the equipment Christians purchased on a poor Muslim man. The doctor was beaming with joy and was thankful.

Same country - had to have armed police escorts out of the city I was in. Madrasas around. Pockets of jihadists group throughout the area.

Not sure what this has to do with this post. Just think it somehow does.
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hopefully islam will follow the same arch of religious growth that christianity did and move away from it's violent spread and embrace helping people like christianity has done

but islam in it's history of growth right now is at the same timeframe christianity was when it was spread by the sword and burning people etc

good work Bedell :cheers
 
goldfly said:
hopefully islam will follow the same arch of religious growth that christianity did and move away from it's violent spread and embrace helping people like christianity has done

but islam in it's history of growth right now is at the same timeframe christianity was when it was spread by the sword and burning people etc

good work Bedell :cheers
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False equivalency. The world around them is different and they still choose to live like animals.
 
goldfly said:
hopefully islam will follow the same arch of religious growth that christianity did and move away from it's violent spread and embrace helping people like christianity has done

but islam in it's history of growth right now is at the same timeframe christianity was when it was spread by the sword and burning people etc

good work Bedell :cheers
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Christianity wasn't initially spread by the sword. And when "it" was it wasn't Christianity. It was a wedding of Church-State, or State with a veneer of Christianity. The problem with Islam is that at it's core it is Mosque-State. Christ said "my kingdom is not of this world." Muhammad didn't say that nor did he practice that. Thus, for that arc to happen in Islam, Islam has to become something very unlike what it is at it's core.

Thanks!
 
sturg33 said:
I do believe the actions we have taken and will likely continue to take under President Trump will only make things worse.

You can claim radical islam all you want. I still think "my son was killed by a drone as collateral damage" makes a whole lot more sense for motivation.

Just my $0.02
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I don't think it is an either/or. I know our drone war in Pakistan has made matters worse. But, I doubt total separation from involvement in the Islamic world will prevent jihadist expansion, not when the goal is to make all of the world dar al-islam.
 
BedellBrave said:
I don't think it is an either/or. I know our drone war in Pakistan has made matters worse. But, I doubt total separation from involvement in the Islamic world will prevent jihadist expansion, not when the goal is to make all of the world dar al-islam.
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I hate the narrative that terrorism is our fault.
 
Forever Fredi said:
You can say it's not our fault, but if you read history you can see that we're not entirely innocent either.
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I've never once stated we are innocent in this bloodshed but it's my belief that this has been coming for centuries and nothing the western world could have done that would have changed it.
 
I get the fear and everything and I understand the religious angle here, but I would like to add a couple of viewpoints. First, Muslims kill more Muslims than they do anyone else and they've been doing that for centuries. It's not funny, but I kind of do an eye roll when every time a white policeman kills an African-American, we're treated to another round of "Well, what about black-on-black crime!?!" The other thing is that the Wahabist Saudis are funding madrassas all over the world, but hey, they are our allies so we never call them on it. That's where the terrorists are being trained, but somehow our steaming rock hard-on for Iran (the gift that also gave us Saddam Hussein) seems to blind us to that fact. Just read an article today about how the Saudi clerics are basically invading the most populous Muslim country in the world: Indonesia.
 
thethe said:
I've never once stated we are innocent in this bloodshed but it's my belief that this has been coming for centuries and nothing the western world could have done that would have changed it.
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I feel like if the western world didn't create & fund ISIS it might make a difference.

One of the things Trump was right about
 
50PoundHead said:
I get the fear and everything and I understand the religious angle here, but I would like to add a couple of viewpoints. First, Muslims kill more Muslims than they do anyone else and they've been doing that for centuries. It's not funny, but I kind of do an eye roll when every time a white policeman kills an African-American, we're treated to another round of "Well, what about black-on-black crime!?!" The other thing is that the Wahabist Saudis are funding madrassas all over the world, but hey, they are our allies so we never call them on it. That's where the terrorists are being trained, but somehow our steaming rock hard-on for Iran (the gift that also gave us Saddam Hussein) seems to blind us to that fact. Just read an article today about how the Saudi clerics are basically invading the most populous Muslim country in the world: Indonesia.
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Oh, "we" don't call them out because how would our presidents have their libraries if we did?
 
sturg33 said:
I feel like if the western world didn't create & fund ISIS it might make a difference.

One of the things Trump was right about
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ISIS would have eventually existed in some form or abother. We did not create this ideology. That's the disease that is plaguing the world.
 
BedellBrave said:
Oh, "we" don't call them out because how would our presidents have their libraries if we did?
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If I'm reading you right, that's about it in a nutshell. But we chose the Sunni side of the equation when the Shia clerics took over Iran (perhaps unwittingly because our brilliant minds in the defense/intelligence/diplomacy sector only thought in secular terms) and as a result we've suffered from our myopia.
 
50PoundHead said:
I get the fear and everything and I understand the religious angle here, but I would like to add a couple of viewpoints. First, Muslims kill more Muslims than they do anyone else and they've been doing that for centuries. It's not funny, but I kind of do an eye roll when every time a white policeman kills an African-American, we're treated to another round of "Well, what about black-on-black crime!?!" The other thing is that the Wahabist Saudis are funding madrassas all over the world, but hey, they are our allies so we never call them on it. That's where the terrorists are being trained, but somehow our steaming rock hard-on for Iran (the gift that also gave us Saddam Hussein) seems to blind us to that fact. Just read an article today about how the Saudi clerics are basically invading the most populous Muslim country in the world: Indonesia.
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Would it be terribly unfair if I said one of if not THE main reason we don't do a better job of standing up to belief systems we don't agree with (and often rightly so) is that we no longer actually know what we believe in any more? We don't have our swagger any more as a nation because we bought into that old "it's OK to do a little evil in order to do much good" and once you start down that "the ends justify the means" pathway it isn't long before you get lost, likely never to get back on the right road?
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Well removing Saddam really poured Miracle Grow on the process.
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Remember reading a conspiracy theory about the US going after Saudi Arabia surgically after 9/11. As in, create so much instability around Saudi Arabia (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt) that they're going to be boxed in and no way out.
 
Forever Fredi said:
Remember reading a conspiracy theory about the US going after Saudi Arabia surgically after 9/11. As in, create so much instability around Saudi Arabia (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt) that they're going to be boxed in and no way out.
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There is absolutely layers of tactics being implemented that inky a handful of people in the world are privy to. This is the longest war being fought that nobody realizes.
 
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