Another attack in Berlin

[thethe]

He hated some of their tactics, but didn't necessarily disagree with Marxist policy. But even if he wasn't a socialist, if he only used the term for broader appeal then that should tell us something. Cruz is an anti government free individual rights dude. When has that ever gone tyrannical? This idea that we attach right leaning politics, which I describe as anti government, to fascist movements is absurd. Fascists almost always use left leaning policies to further their agenda.

Bravo. Let's just call it an inconvenient truth.

 

[50PoundHead]

I always love how people seem to impress today's terms on an earlier time when conditions were greatly different. Let's remember what Europe looked like after WWI, especially for countries on the losing end of the War like Germany and Italy. Hitler always made it clear that he didn't subscribe to the Marxist definition of communism.

 

[goldfly]

whatever 50, the republican party of Lincoln is like totally the same republican party of Trump

 

[weso1]

I always love how people seem to impress today's terms on an earlier time when conditions were greatly different. Let's remember what Europe looked like after WWI, especially for countries on the losing end of the War like Germany and Italy. Hitler always made it clear that he didn't subscribe to the Marxist definition of communism.

I always love how leftists seem to impress today's definition of socialism as somehow different then the mid 20th century definition of socialism. Hitler made it clear that he did indeed subscribe to the marxist definition of communism, but he clearly understood the idea that is was uncouth during his time. He railed not against the idea of marxism, but how to make it popular.

 

[sturg33]

I always love how leftists seem to impress today's definition of socialism as somehow different then the mid 20th century definition of socialism. Hitler made it clear that he did indeed subscribe to the marxist definition of communism, but he clearly understood the idea that is was uncouth during his time. He railed not against the idea of marxism, but how to make it popular.

Big government always leans closer to socialism than capitalism. It always favors the rich. It always takes away freedom. You can't have fascism without big government.

The libertarians get mocked for wanting to limit the power of the federal government. The the left panics when Donald Trump becomes President.

It'd be funny if it wasn't sad

 

[50PoundHead]

Big government always leans closer to socialism than capitalism. It always favors the rich. It always takes away freedom. You can't have fascism without big government.

The libertarians get mocked for wanting to limit the power of the federal government. The the left panics when Donald Trump becomes President.

It'd be funny if it wasn't sad

More true than what some of the supposed uber-capitalists want to believe. I made up this saying, so use it as you please. "Everyone's a capitalist on the way up the ladder, but a socialist once they reach the roof." I really laugh at Trump on some days. Just under $1 billion in government subsidies helped him amass a portion of his considerable wealth. I don't blame Trump for taking the subsides. I blame the local governments that doled them out. What I object to in Trump is his "I did this all on my lonesome" schtick.

weso, I'm a progressive that's left-of-center, but I'm also a pragmatist who is not particularly scared of the Trump presidency. I lived through the 1960s. But I have a pretty good grasp of history and political philosophy. First off, Marx wasn't a socialist. Marx was a communist (and some would argue that he never believed his system would be adopted) and believed the state should "wither away" once communism was in place. Socialists obviously believe the state should continue. MARX had what I consider a pretty decent take with the theory of surplus value that really does sum up labor economics quite succinctly. Marx despised the socialists because he didn't think they went far enough, so you can quit lumping the terms Marxist and socialist at your leisure.

The crux of my earlier post is that the fascist movements in Italy and Germany weren't all about economic systems. They were nationalist and political movements first. In both cases (and in the case of the Soviet Union), they took on state ownership of many large industries, but in the case of Germany that wasn't there from the get-go (except for confiscating property from the Jews). As pressure to deliver to the masses increased, Hitler took bold--and incorrect--economic moves to placate growing demands and pursued a more aggressive approach to state ownership of the means of production.

 

[cajunrevenge]

whatever 50, the republican party of Lincoln is like totally the same republican party of Trump

Trump and Lincoln actually have a lot in common so far. It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows for Lincoln. He won less than 40% of the popular vote and fluked his way into office like Trump. By the time of inauguration Lincoln had an approval rating of 25%. Lincoln also waged a very unpopular war and shut down newspapers thathe said mean things about him. It wasn't until Sherman took Atlanta that he was seen anything more than a "obscene ape".

 

[sturg33]

Trump and Lincoln actually have a lot in common so far. It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows for Lincoln. He won less than 40% of the popular vote and fluked his way into office like Trump. By the time of inauguration Lincoln had an approval rating of 25%. Lincoln also waged a very unpopular war and shut down newspapers thathe said mean things about him. It wasn't until Sherman took Atlanta that he was seen anything more than a "obscene ape".

Goldy doesn't seem to understand political philosophies very well

 

[Hawk]

You hear anyone in Berlin complaining about all the immigrants and the issues they are causing? I imagine a massive far-right movement is underway there.

Not so much in Berlin, which is notoriously progressive, but heard lots about it down South - and this was before the attack. Incidentally, was walking around the scene the night it all happened and some random guy came up to me and started blaming America, Russia, and Saudi Arabia. Obviously I got out of there pretty quick.

Will be interesting to see if Merkel sends forces to the Middle East now like France did after Nice. Germany is a sleeping giant and enormously generous with its borders (1 million asylum seekers this year) ... can't believe ISIL would piss in the only open bed available to them in the West.

 

[Hawk]

First of all, as thethe said, stay safe!! As for Kurfurstendamn, is that the place with statue of the pistol where the barrel is tied in a knot?

Ku'damm is Berlin's equivalent to the Champs-Elysees (which it was modeled after, but fails to imitate) in West Berlin on a road which leads right into Potsdammer Platz and the East.

The sculpture you are referring to is near the Reichstag building, I think.

 

[cajunrevenge]

Will be interesting to see if Merkel sends forces to the Middle East now like France did after Nice. Germany is a sleeping giant and enormously generous with its borders (1 million asylum seekers this year) ... can't believe ISIL would piss in the only open bed available to them in the West.

But that's what the bad guys want. We are just playing whack-a-mole at this point with the terrorists. It's never going to stop. It's only going to get worse. How many times are we going to double down on this before we realize it's not going to work?

 

[thethe]

Not so much in Berlin, which is notoriously progressive, but heard lots about it down South - and this was before the attack. Incidentally, was walking around the scene the night it all happened and some random guy came up to me and started blaming America, Russia, and Saudi Arabia. Obviously I got out of there pretty quick.

Will be interesting to see if Merkel sends forces to the Middle East now like France did after Nice. Germany is a sleeping giant and enormously generous with its borders (1 million asylum seekers this year) ... can't believe ISIL would piss in the only open bed available to them in the West.

They don't careally about anything. They just want to see the world burn.

 

[thethe]

But that's what the bad guys want. We are just playing whack-a-mole at this point with the terrorists. It's never going to stop. It's only going to get worse. How many times are we going to double down on this before we realize it's not going to work?

It was always going to get worse. Our actions did not change that fact.

 

[Krgrecw]

But that's what the bad guys want. We are just playing whack-a-mole at this point with the terrorists. It's never going to stop. It's only going to get worse. How many times are we going to double down on this before we realize it's not going to work?

And what do you think happens if you don't do anythjng?

 

[cajunrevenge]

It was always going to get worse. Our actions did not change that fact.

We kicked the hornets nest when we invaded Iraq. Also attacks by the refugees was easily preventable.

And what do you think happens if you don't do anythjng?

Well it's a little late now but we can't bomb our way out of this situation. Personally I would focus on our security here and heavily restrict immigration from the middle east. That's what I believe will get the least amount of Americans killed or maimed. Troops lives matter.

 

[50PoundHead]

Not so much in Berlin, which is notoriously progressive, but heard lots about it down South - and this was before the attack. Incidentally, was walking around the scene the night it all happened and some random guy came up to me and started blaming America, Russia, and Saudi Arabia. Obviously I got out of there pretty quick.

Will be interesting to see if Merkel sends forces to the Middle East now like France did after Nice. Germany is a sleeping giant and enormously generous with its borders (1 million asylum seekers this year) ... can't believe ISIL would piss in the only open bed available to them in the West.

Merkel has been a target since the gang assaults on women last New Year's Eve. You get to travel to these places and talk to folks first hand (I laud you, but I'm not particularly jealous because I'm not much of a traveler--just ask Mrs. 50#) and Germany is going to be an interesting case. They have welcomed folks with open arms. I was in Freiburg and Leipzig over a decade ago and I was struck by how many Turks were in he workforce. I was told it was because of the labor shortage (and that is a problem throughout kid-starved Europe).

Here's the NPR story from yesterday on the matter. It covers both sides of the issue: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/20/506337111/berlin-attack-sparks-debate-over-german-refugee-policy

As for stopping it, my guess is that there will be tighter immigration standards worldwide, which I don't object to. Refugees will likely stay in camps for longer stretches. But I don't think that stops the violence due to homegrown terrorism. The disaffected have so many communication and weapon options available to them that there's nothing to really curb that unless we put chips in everyone's brain. I kid, of course, but I don't see how we can stop every single incidence of terrorism. And I agree with cajun that bombing them back to the Stone Age only pushes those with mild anti-American sentiments further against us, both at home and abroad.

 

[thethe]

We kicked the hornets nest when we invaded Iraq. Also attacks by the refugees was easily preventable.

Well it's a little late now but we can't bomb our way out of this situation. Personally I would focus on our security here and heavily restrict immigration from the middle east. That's what I believe will get the least amount of Americans killed or maimed. Troops lives matter.

I agree with your second point. I do worry what freedoms these animals would have unchecked but we absolutely need to beef up our security and not allow unfettered immigration.

 

[BedellBrave]

Merkel has been a target since the gang assaults on women last New Year's Eve. You get to travel to these places and talk to folks first hand (I laud you, but I'm not particularly jealous because I'm not much of a traveler--just ask Mrs. 50#) and Germany is going to be an interesting case. They have welcomed folks with open arms. I was in Freiburg and Leipzig over a decade ago and I was struck by how many Turks were in he workforce. I was told it was because of the labor shortage (and that is a problem throughout kid-starved Europe).

Here's the NPR story from yesterday on the matter. It covers both sides of the issue: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/20/506337111/berlin-attack-sparks-debate-over-german-refugee-policy

As for stopping it, my guess is that there will be tighter immigration standards worldwide, which I don't object to. Refugees will likely stay in camps for longer stretches. But I don't think that stops the violence due to homegrown terrorism. The disaffected have so many communication and weapon options available to them that there's nothing to really curb that unless we put chips in everyone's brain. I kid, of course, but I don't see how we can stop every single incidence of terrorism. And I agree with cajun that bombing them back to the Stone Age only pushes those with mild anti-American sentiments further against us, both at home and abroad.

And that's their great weakness.... Maybe they ought to begin having a few more babies.