Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows

[smootness]

Um, sure. Easily. White Sox.

Giolito #3
Kopech #30
Lopez #38
Fulmer #58

It's not very hard to find teams with more than 2 pitchers in the Top 100.

That was a completely moronic hyperbole about the Braves system, and I can't wait to see you backpedal away from the comment. I'm guessing it will hinge on the rankings being out of date or incorrect.

Just because you list the names out and declare "that's insane" while touching yourself doesn't make them any better than they are.

Fair enough, the White Sox may be better overall than our LHP prospects. And yes, just because you accurately predict I might say the rankings are out of date because they are, in fact, out of date doesn't make that not so. You know Giolito is not a top-10 or perhaps even top-30 prospect right now.

And the # of guys in the top 100 is not the entire way to gauge it. You would be hard-pressed to find systems that can compete with that top 6 of Allard/Newcomb/Fried/Wentz/Gohara/Muller. You gave me one. Maybe I was wrong. Regardless, the kind of pitching we've compiled, especially left-handers, is incredibly impressive.

If this is the way you talk smack on the internet, I can only imagine how ferocious your cornhole scowl is.

 

[mqt]

FG write-up on the pieces in yesterday's trade. I think it's a pretty good assessment on Mallex. Speed should allow him to be an above average CF, but his arm and some difficulties judging balls hit behind him likely prevent him from being a top-tier CF. At the plate, all signs point to him being a platoon player. I would add that baserunning skills are very raw (is not able to turn plus-plus speed into the results you would hope for).

The write-up on Gohara is pretty much choose your own adventure, which I think is appropriate given the high risk.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-the-braves-and-rays-new-prospects/

I know there's some downside in that report, but it's realistically hard to read that and feel anything but good about the move we made. I'm sounding like a broken record at this point, but people need to realize the kind of upside Gohara has if he keeps up the improvements he made last year.

 

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Um, sure. Easily. White Sox.

Giolito #3

Kopech #30

Lopez #38

Fulmer #58

It's not very hard to find teams with more than 2 pitchers in the Top 100.

That was a completely moronic hyperbole about the Braves system, and I can't wait to see you backpedal away from the comment. I'm guessing it will hinge on the rankings being out of date or incorrect.

Just because you list the names out and declare "that's insane" while touching yourself doesn't make them any better than they are.

To be fair, he didn't say our current prospects were the best last year, when that list was created. All of our hyped LHP improved since that list was created, as well (and guys like Wentz were too young to be top 100). Fried and Gohara are borderline top 100 guys, so we may have 4 LHP in the top 100 when that list is updated (unlikely, but worth bringing up).

I actually agree with you that CWS pitching prospects are better than only our LHP, but we easily have the best lefthanded stable.

 

[thewupk]

I mean he's literally a fourth OF.

Yes and there is a difference between literally being one right now and having that be your future MLB role.

 

[gilesfan]

Yes and there is a difference between literally being one right now and having that be your future MLB role.

I can understand the logic behind the trade, but you wouldn't have to work too hard to support that Mallex could potentially have been our second best OF.

 

[Enscheff]

I understand the reasoning behind it, but I also think we're going to use those two 40 man roster spots on major league players. We have 3 positions we can upgrade in Chase Darnaud, Mel Rojas Jr., and Anthony Decker. We could upgrade any of those and still options those players back to the minors. That's why I think the timing of the trade is what it is. We have something else in place. It could be a trade or two, but I think it's more than likely free agents.

I think Chris Coghlan could be one. Matt Wieters is of course an option as well.

Here are the guys I think the Braves could/should be interested in if their prices are as described:

One of:

3B Hwang for $5M-$10M total, including posting fee

3B Valbuena for 2/10 max, platooning with Garcia mostly, then with SRod when Albies is promoted

UT Stephen Drew for $4M, platooning with Garcia mostly, then with SRod when Albies is promoted

One of:

CF Jennings for $1M MLB contract

CF Austin Jackson for who knows how much

Additionally:

C Wieters for 2/15 max

BP Greg Holland for 1/10 (he wants a 2 year deal with an opt out after year 1, so just give him a high single season salary)

 

[IowaBrave14]

Almost all those 50 FV pitchers have a good fastball, a good primary offspeed pitch, and a developing 3rd pitch. It's their poor control (like Touki, Newcomb, Sims) that COULD relagate them to the BP.

No worries, fixed it for you. I know you have an agenda...but didn't want that to stop anything.

 

[Southcack77]

Yes and there is a difference between literally being one right now and having that be your future MLB role.

Sure but the smart money seems to have him pegged as a fourth of.

I'm not sure why he was so popular here except that he's a brave.

All his value was pretty tied into defense and you consistently read that he has problems there as well.

If his high end projection is Michael Bourn and he hasn't come anywhere near that yet, the value on trade isn't going to be what you think.

I might have preferred something other than another pitching ticket, but I think going low minors was the only way you were going to get any high upside out of it.

The braves clearly have been invested in shuffling some aaa/low upside major league talent for higher upside talent in the lower levels.

Both to restart the clocks on the value but also to perhaps make best situation for contending three years from now without affecting the major league team.

Mallex just didn't have anywhere to go and I think they did not extend inciarte with any sort of trade in mind.

 

[Enscheff]

No worries, fixed it for you. I know you have an agenda...but didn't want that to stop anything.

Um no. Poor control will absolutely limit them to the BP. Fixing their control with prevent it. There was nothing incorrect with what I wrote.

And what exactly is my agenda? I secretly want the Braves pitching prospects to fail so I can continue to watch a last place team?

 

[Carp]

Um, sure. Easily. White Sox.

Giolito #3

Kopech #30

Lopez #38

Fulmer #58

It's not very hard to find teams with more than 2 pitchers in the Top 100.

That was a completely moronic hyperbole about the Braves system, and I can't wait to see you backpedal away from the comment. I'm guessing it will hinge on the rankings being out of date or incorrect.

Just because you list the names out and declare "that's insane" while touching yourself doesn't make them any better than they are.

Braves are going to have Anderson, Allard, Newcomb, Touki, Soroka, and likely Fried all in the top 100. That's 6. Please find me more than 2 or 3 teams with 6 top 100 prospects, much less all pitchers.

Edit: I guess you were talking about LHP. Still, there are may be 1 or 2 teams that have a better group of top end LHP's. And certainly our top group stack up well to anyone else's.

 

[Southcack77]

I can understand the logic behind the trade, but you wouldn't have to work too hard to support that Mallex could potentially have been our second best OF.

Not if he didn't play and his value would all be defensive, which is problematic for me.

Putting him or Inciarte in right just doesn't make sense except to build value and that's not what the braves were going to be doing.

 

[Enscheff]

Sure but the smart money seems to have him pegged as a fourth of.

I'm not sure why he was so popular here except that he's a brave.

All his value was pretty tied into defense and you consistently read that he has problems there as well.

If his high end projection is Michael Bourn and he hasn't come anywhere near that yet, the value on trade isn't going to be what you think.

I might have preferred something other than another pitching ticket, but I think going low minors was the only way you were going to get any high upside out of it.

The braves clearly have been invested in shuffling some aaa/low upside major league talent for higher upside talent in the lower levels.

Both to restart the clocks on the value but also to perhaps make best situation for contending three years from now without affecting the major league team.

Mallex just didn't have anywhere to go and I think they did not extend inciarte with any sort of trade in mind.

So if everyone has him pegged as a 4th OFer, why trade him now at that value? Why not give him some time in AAA to prove he can be an everyday CFer that posts 2-3 WAR? Why not see is he can reach his lofty KATOH projections after already posting 1 WAR in less than half an MLB season?

Worst case scenario is he confirms he is a 4th OFer, and has the exact same value as right now.

What was the rush to trade him now? Did the Braves have an urgent need for yet another A ball pitcher?

 

[Enscheff]

Braves are going to have Anderson, Allard, Newcomb, Touki, Soroka, and likely Fried all in the top 100. That's 6. Please find me more than 2 or 3 teams with 6 top 100 prospects, much less all pitchers.

Reading comprehension. Work on it. Please. Until you can read above a 6th grade level, don't bother posting.

He said "just our LHed pitching prospects would be the best group of pitching prospects in the game".

 

[Carp]

Reading comprehension. Work on it. Please. Until you can read above a 6th grade level, don't bother posting.

He said "just our LHed pitching prospects would be the best group of pitching prospects in the game".

Yeah I caught that, jerk, and edited my post already. Quit being a twat and be open to actual discussion.

 

[Enscheff]

Fair enough, the White Sox may be better overall than our LHP prospects. And yes, just because you accurately predict I might say the rankings are out of date because they are, in fact, out of date doesn't make that not so. You know Giolito is not a top-10 or perhaps even top-30 prospect right now.

And the # of guys in the top 100 is not the entire way to gauge it. You would be hard-pressed to find systems that can compete with that top 6 of Allard/Newcomb/Fried/Wentz/Gohara/Muller. You gave me one. Maybe I was wrong. Regardless, the kind of pitching we've compiled, especially left-handers, is incredibly impressive.

If this is the way you talk smack on the internet, I can only imagine how ferocious your cornhole scowl is.

Agreed. The Braves have the best collection of LHP talent in the game. Concentrating 80% of your player acquisition resources towards LHed pitchers will have that effect. Now we just need to hope some of them pan out. I would still preferred them to pile resources into position talent.

Nobody scowls during cornhole matches.

 

[Enscheff]

Yeah I caught that, jerk, and edited my post already. Quit being a twat and be open to actual discussion.

Again, you still don't understand what he said as evidenced by your statement, "there are may be 1 or 2 teams that have a better group of top end LHP's". That wasn't his assertion at all. He said JUST the Braves LHers are better than ALL the pitchers in any other system. That is quite simply an absurd statement. I'm sorry that me pointing that out has offended you so. Go find your safe zone.

I agree with the assertion that the Braves have the best collection of LHPs though. They got that "honor" by devoting the majority of their player acquisition resources into accumulating LHPs. Whether or not that is sound organizational philosophy is certainly up for debate, however. Some would argue that is stone-aged baseball thinking, and would prefer to see the Braves build around position prospects like the Cubs, BoSox and Astros did, and the Yankees are currently doing. We saw the Mets hitch their wagon to a young starting staff, and we saw how badly that can turn out already.

 

[Russ2dollas]

Do you honestly think any team other than the Braves would trade an extremely valuable MLB piece like Q or Archer for a handful of pitching prospects, all of whom probably fall outside the Top 50? That package isn't even close to the one the ChiSox got for Eaton, which contained 2 of the Top 10 RHP prospects in the game.

Fangraphs write up said Gahora was "conservatively" a top 50 prospect. Newcombe has been and is top 100. Not crazy to think the other Wentz or Mueller is top 100 soon (guys get promoted out of prospects all of the time). And Left hand pitching matters.

So yes I do. If anyone comes through with a stud prospect our poo poo platter loses. But I don't think that offer is coming. Maybe someone like Pitt does it at the deadline.

 

[thethe]

So if everyone has him pegged as a 4th OFer, why trade him now at that value? Why not give him some time in AAA to prove he can be an everyday CFer that posts 2-3 WAR? Why not see is he can reach his lofty KATOH projections after already posting 1 WAR in less than half an MLB season?

Worst case scenario is he confirms he is a 4th OFer, and has the exact same value as right now.

What was the rush to trade him now? Did the Braves have an urgent need for yet another A ball pitcher?

Does anyone trade a top 100 prospect for a 4th outfielder?

 

[Russ2dollas]

I can understand the logic behind the trade, but you wouldn't have to work too hard to support that Mallex could potentially have been our second best OF.

I think you do. He hasn't hit Lefties. Not much power. Not a great walk rate. Never a top prospect. Not really that good on D, just fast.

You can't play Mallex and Ender together to be good.

The fact that Kemp and Neck are Kemp and Neck does not sway me.

I think it's much more likely that DPeterson is a 2 Win RF this year than it is that Mallex is a 3 win CF.

Not to mention Mallex's skills could probably be quickly replaced by Lein or Didder. With position changes maybe a guy Like Demeritte or Seymore could be that guy in a couple of years. He's very very replaceable.

When we got Mallex would anyone think that Mallex + Simmons would get you a top 50 LH pitcher?

 

[Enscheff]

Fangraphs write up said Gahora was "conservatively" a top 50 prospect. Newcombe has been and is top 100. Not crazy to think the other Wentz or Mueller is top 100 soon (guys get promoted out of prospects all of the time). And Left hand pitching matters.

So yes I do. If anyone comes through with a stud prospect our poo poo platter loses. But I don't think that offer is coming. Maybe someone like Pitt does it at the deadline.

Allow me to quote the statement, and then breakdown what it means to help the folks with limited reading comprehension.

"On upside, Gohara is one of baseball’s top-50 prospects (pretty conservatively), with the chance to be a No. 2 or 3 starter if everything comes together. He represents significant risk because of his occupation and history of conditioning issues. His floor (assuming he doesn’t completely flame out in the minors) is that of a late-inning reliever."

Sentence 1: Based on upside, Gohara has the one of the top 50 ceilings of all prospects.

Sentence 2: When risk factors are accounted for, such as his conditioning issues and the volatility of pitching prospects, his overall value is lowered.

I have seen Longenhagen routinely knock a half to a full grade off the FV of a prospect based on risk factors. Since he pegs Gohara with "significant risk", a full grade will likely be deducted, placing him right around 50 FV.