Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows

nsacpi said:
The Braves FO is obviously applying a pretty big positive fudge factor to Gohara. They might turn out to be right. But I tend to be suspicious when trades are based upon a big fudge factor.
Click to expand...

The heck is a fudge factor? Haha

Their values seem prett comparable right now. Some knowledgeable people have even argued Gohara has quite a bit more value right now.
 
You can bet Coppy has forgotten more about baseball, than we will ever know....he doesn't know how it will turn out and neither does anyone else.

He is again and again taking taking a chance on high ceiling guys. Only one or two have to "hit" to make it worth it.

They like DPet much more. There is a gamble both ways of course. Mallex can come out on fire OR (just as likely), he could regress or stay hurt.

Big leftys that throw 95 plus are a rare find. He's only 20. Mallex is 24. If he doesn't progress quickly from here out, he has a tough road ahead.

Everything...everything is a gamble. The most "sure thing" prospect can blow out a arm. The Cuban has lost weight and is getting in shape, if he puts it together...look out. As far as chances go...chances are neither become stars.

One thing is for sure a big young Lefty that throws 95+ will always have more value than a burner outfielder with very little pop in his bat, that doesn't hit for that great of an average either.

The Braves have a ton of talent evaluators, that do this for a living. If they let him go, they don't believe he has much more to show than he already has, and that is....he will never come close to Ender.
 
TheBravos said:
You can bet Coppy has forgotten more about baseball, than we will ever know....he doesn't know how it will turn out and neither does anyone else.

He is again and again taking taking a chance on high ceiling guys. Only one or two have to "hit" to make it worth it.

They like DPet much more. There is a gamble both ways of course. Mallex can come out on fire OR (just as likely), he could regress or stay hurt.

Big leftys that throw 95 plus are a rare find. He's only 20. Mallex is 24. If he doesn't progress quickly from here out, he has a tough road ahead.

Everything...everything is a gamble. The most "sure thing" prospect can blow out a arm. The Cuban has lost weight and is getting in shape, if he puts it together...look out. As far as chances go...chances are neither become stars.

One thing is for sure a big young Lefty that throws 95+ will always have more value than a burner outfielder with very little pop in his bat, that doesn't hit for that great of an average either.

The Braves have a ton of talent evaluators, that do this for a living. If they let him go, they don't believe he has much more to show than he already has, and that is....he will never come close to Ender.
Click to expand...

Actually Coppy has made lots of trades for quantity rather than high upside. The trade bringing us Mallex being a prime example.
 
The of positions does not work. I'm with you but our front office thinks kemp and neck are positives not negatives.

Mallex was not going to play if ppl are healthy. Dpeterson is the guy to move neck. How was he going to get the time to prove he's a x war player? Is aaa going to do that?
 
smootness said:
Not really. We weren't going to get a higher ceiling prospect than Fried for one year of Upton.
Click to expand...

think about all the players we've traded in recent years...if the emphasis had really been on getting very highly rated talent we would have taken a different approach...we would have tailored combinations of guys like Heyward, Kimbrel and Simmons rather than tradingdthem piecemeal sometimes in 3 or 4 for one trades...the only time we did that was Wood and Peraza for Olivera...that trade had other issues but the concept of two very good players for an exceptional talent is a good one
 
smootness said:
They didn't give up Smyly for Mallex alone.
Click to expand...

But they already had the other prospects in the deal, so it could have just been Gohara and those guys, which implies Tampa likes Mallex more than Gohara (or is heavily valuing proximity to the majors).

Kinda funny that I agree with your opinions completely on this trade since I'm all about the nuances.
 
My Lord....what would Kemp have to do for you guys to respect him...hit 80 HRs and 300 RBI??? He changed the offensive output of the team almost over night. For the matter ...what would Nick have to do. He played solid D and was a clutch hitter that hit for average. Unreal.
 
TheBravos said:
My Lord....what would Kemp have to do for you guys to respect him...hit 80 HRs and 300 RBI??? He changed the offensive output of the team almost over night. For the matter ...what would Nick have to do. He played solid D and was a clutch hitter that hit for average. Unreal.
Click to expand...

Be worth more than 2 WAR.

Edit: I think they're more or less fine, but to get respect, that would be the line.
 
TheBravos said:
My Lord....what would Kemp have to do for you guys to respect him...hit 80 HRs and 300 RBI??? He changed the offensive output of the team almost over night. For the matter ...what would Nick have to do. He played solid D and was a clutch hitter that hit for average. Unreal.
Click to expand...

Paralysis by analysis.
 
Ventura's Stolen Bases said:
But they already had the other prospects in the deal, so it could have just been Gohara and those guys, which implies Tampa likes Mallex more than Gohara (or is heavily valuing proximity to the majors).
Click to expand...

It is pretty clear that Tampa values Mallex over Gohara. And even more clear they would value Shae plus Mallex over Gohara.
 
Enscheff said:
So if everyone has him pegged as a 4th OFer, why trade him now at that value? Why not give him some time in AAA to prove he can be an everyday CFer that posts 2-3 WAR? Why not see is he can reach his lofty KATOH projections after already posting 1 WAR in less than half an MLB season?

Worst case scenario is he confirms he is a 4th OFer, and has the exact same value as right now.

What was the rush to trade him now? Did the Braves have an urgent need for yet another A ball pitcher?
Click to expand...

He can't prove he's more than a fourth OF in aaa. Or by in fact being a fourth OF.

And apparently the braves don't think he's more than that. Or at least they don't think he's better option than inciarte at a higher salary.

As far as I can tell only braves fans think he is more.

And they aren't going to play him and inciarte together because that doesn't make any roster sense.

So they moved him for I guess a pitcher they consider to be a really high upside play.

Baseball in general seems to agree with that. I'm not sure if that was the play or not, but he does seem to be turning a corner of sorts.

The mariners are probably either selling high after the best days of the kids career or trying to do something to win in short term as acquiring a starter with 2 years of control doesn't make much sense otherwise as a long term play.
 
So the fact that he hit over 100 RBIs, and 35 HR's in the two worst hitters parks in baseball means nothing.

In a hitter friendly park he would be batting in about 130 RBI and 40 HRs.

Our offense went from literally unwatchable , to one of the better ones in the league. That wasn't all him, BUT he had a BIG part in it.

WAR is only ONE way to evaluate a player's performance. It's not the end all be all.

I wasn't too big on the Kemp trade, but I can't argue the results....I don't see how anyone can. Any GM would take a 40 HR/ 100 + RBI guy...
 
nsacpi said:
Actually Coppy has made lots of trades for quantity rather than high upside. The trade bringing us Mallex being a prime example.
Click to expand...

The odd thing here, to me, is that he reverted to earlier form and traded a guy who will likely contribute something at the big league level in the near future for a guy who is pretty far away. From statements late in the season, I thought we were moving towards trades that would bring in more big league-ready guys.
 
nsacpi said:
think about all the players we've traded in recent years...if the emphasis had really been on getting very highly rated talent we would have taken a different approach...we would have tailored combinations of guys like Heyward, Kimbrel and Simmons rather than tradingdthem piecemeal sometimes in 3 or 4 for one trades...the only time we did that was Wood and Peraza for Olivera...that trade had other issues but the concept of two very good players for an exceptional talent is a good one
Click to expand...

The goal was to get as many high upside guys as we could get. There is clearly a strategy to minimize risk by getting numerous high-upside assets. You may consider that 'quantity' but it's not a bunch of middling guys. You also have to have trade partners. There's no guarantee that packaging all those guys will return as much value.

When you're getting prospects in return for major leaguers, you're always going to give up fewer players than you're getting. But the track record of the team's getting prospect hauls in deals like that is pretty good.
 
TheBravos said:
So the fact that he hit over 100 RBIs, and 35 HR's in the two worst hitters parks in baseball means nothing.

In a hitter friendly park he would be batting in about 130 RBI and 40 HRs.

Our offense went from literally unwatchable , to one of the better ones in the league. That wasn't all him, BUT he had a BIG part in it.

WAR is only ONE way to evaluate a player's performance. It's not the end all be all.

I wasn't too big on the Kemp trade, but I can't argue the results....I don't see how anyone can. Any GM would take a 40 HR/ 100 + RBI guy...
Click to expand...

It's all about defense, which I find a questionable consideration for a LF, but that's the limitation.

i don't think WAR really values defense quite right and it ignores some aspects of lineup construction.

But I don't think Kemp or Mallex is necessarily a championship player. That's not really what atlanta's trying to do at the moment so Mallex is probably pretty disposable and carries a little bit of value.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top