I gave DJT a chance, now I'm out

Julio3000 said:
My brother-in-law is a Pakistani native, a naturalized citizen, a Muslim, and a big fan of (American) football. His family is still there. Hope he gets to see them again.

My uncle is an Iraqi-born Armenian. He extricated his aged mother from Iraq before the war, but if he were trying to do so now, she might never have met her American grandchildren.

Crocodile tears. Please.
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From what I understand this is a 90 day ban while they figure out an effective vetting process.
 
Whenever immigration resumes I hope all these people who are upset volunteer to let Syrian refugees be their neighbor. Lets see how you feel about letting your daughter walk around alone knowing whats next door.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Whenever immigration resumes I hope all these people who are upset volunteer to let Syrian refugees be their neighbor. Lets see how you feel about letting your daughter walk around alone knowing whats next door.
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In a heartbeat I would. The process one goes through to become a Syrian refugee is insane, and I'd have the utmost confidence.
 
Julio3000 said:
There are problems and challenges in European assimilation of migrant minorities. No kidding. There are also notable successes.

Also, this is not Europe. Let's not let scaremongering drive policy.
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Where? The Netherlands?

I've spent roughly 8 months out of the past 24 criss-crossing Europe for my job. It's absolutely scary in some places. Brussels used to be one of my favorite cities on the continent, but when I was there a month ago I literally did not feel safe being outside after dark. The situation there is virtually martial law - soldiers armed to the teeth at every major train station, the airports, and just wandering around the city center. Likewise in Paris and across France (if you haven't seen a FAMAS assault rifle up close and personal, then you haven't lived). I was in Berlin this past December when the Christmas market attack was perpetrated. The city was on edge for days - it was palpable. Who knows what it will be like there the next time I visit. There is trouble afoot in Malmo, Copenhagen, and, of course, across England. I don't understand how some are willing to dismiss what is quickly becoming the state of nature in Europe as nothing more than an anomaly. It's an enormously frightening situation.

No, Europe isn't the United States. They have been far more hospitable than we have toward refugees ... from Libya, Syria, the Middle East, and Africa. But we can point to the Europeans as substantive proof of the potential consequences if there are no proper protocols in place to vet, house, or properly socialize Muslim immigrants into Western society. Both in terms of terrorism and in terms of the rise of New Nationalism. I don't see the harm in learning from that. Makes more sense to me than blithely playing humanitarian.
 
Julio3000 said:
My brother-in-law is a Pakistani native, a naturalized citizen, a Muslim, and a big fan of (American) football. His family is still there. Hope he gets to see them again.

My uncle is an Iraqi-born Armenian. He extricated his aged mother from Iraq before the war, but if he were trying to do so now, she might never have met her American grandchildren.

Crocodile tears. Please.
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I was referring to the concern which has suddenly arisen for Syrians who have been relentlessly bombed and gassed for the past 3 years.

Oh, I forget - no help then. No boots on the ground. Let the Russians handle it.

Got it.

It reminds me of the whole #BringBackOurGirls movement. Where are they now?

Before that it was Kony. Darfur.

Smugly hypocritical Western privilege is a nice perch.
 
Hawk said:
I was referring to the concern which has suddenly arisen for Syrians who have been relentlessly bombed and gassed for the past 3 years.

Oh, I forget - no help then. No boots on the ground. Let the Russians handle it.

Got it.

It reminds me of the whole #BringBackOurGirls movement. Where are they now?

Before that it was Kony. Darfur.

Smugly hypocritical Western privilege is a nice perch.
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You're so right. Because we have a short attention span when it comes to global crises, it means we should definitely not feel bad about decisions that affect those people.
 
I agree with Ben Sasse that the policy is way too broad, but a temporary pause in refugee admittance (which is what it should be) is hardly that big of a deal. Obama temporarily haulted Iraqi refugee processing for 6 months in 2011 according to The Federalist. This apparently happened when a suspected terrorist snuck past the amazing screening process the US uses.
 
mqt said:
You're so right. Because we have a short attention span when it comes to global crises, it means we should definitely not feel bad about decisions that affect those people.
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Or, we could just continue to selectively 'feel bad' when it suits our geopolitical comprehension.
 
Hawk said:
Where? The Netherlands?

I've spent roughly 8 months out of the past 24 criss-crossing Europe for my job. It's absolutely scary in some places. Brussels used to be one of my favorite cities on the continent, but when I was there a month ago I literally did not feel safe being outside after dark. The situation there is virtually martial law - soldiers armed to the teeth at every major train station, the airports, and just wandering around the city center. Likewise in Paris and across France (if you haven't seen a FAMAS assault rifle up close and personal, then you haven't lived). I was in Berlin this past December when the Christmas market attack was perpetrated. The city was on edge for days - it was palpable. Who knows what it will be like there the next time I visit. There is trouble afoot in Malmo, Copenhagen, and, of course, across England. I don't understand how some are willing to dismiss what is quickly becoming the state of nature in Europe as nothing more than an anomaly. It's an enormously frightening situation.

No, Europe isn't the United States. They have been far more hospitable than we have toward refugees ... from Libya, Syria, the Middle East, and Africa. But we can point to the Europeans as substantive proof of the potential consequences if there are no proper protocols in place to vet, house, or properly socialize Muslim immigrants into Western society. Both in terms of terrorism and in terms of the rise of New Nationalism. I don't see the harm in learning from that. Makes more sense to me than blithely playing humanitarian.
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If I had any confidence that our pending policies were being developed by the best available folks, using pragmatic experience gleaned from our European allies, I might be comforted. As it is, I'm not.

I'm not going to argue your perceptions of Europe. I used to travel there a lot (also for work) but haven't for several years, so I give your opinion some credence.

But seriously, quit carrying water for these people. They're poison. Quit excusing ****tiness because it's not the same flavor of ****tiness as before. Quit expecting that it's going to get better, because there is no evidence that it will.
 
mqt said:
A sickening, though expected development. Nothing spells out the intent quite like the fact that Christians are apparently going to receive preferential treatment. I'm thoroughly disgusted with our government today.
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I hope you also were opposed to Obama's discriminatory practice which effectively banned Christian refugees and thought it a travesty.
 
Julio3000 said:
How many of them are women and children and people who've been through a multiple-year screening process? It takes some cojones to talk about sounding great but meaning nothing in context of these executive orders.

A religious test for citizenship and immigration is illegal, unconstitutional, or both. You're not protecting the country, you're harming our interests by confirming the rhetoric of those who truly do wish us harm.
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I've never understood the "no vetting" cry. There's been a very rigorous vetting process in place.
 
thethe said:
I disagree. I would never act as if I'm an expert on Islamic scripture but from everything I've read the religion is inherently violent. I think bedell could really expand on this.
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I think our friends do need to reckon with the violence of Muhammad and the distinctive mosque-state theology that Islam proclaims and not just give the same old knee-jerk, patronizing Western wish projection. Islam typically is only mild when there is a heavy secular or alternative religious counter-balance. If you track what is going on in Turkey, you'll see this playing out.

That said, I am no fan of how this is unfolding.
 
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It would be one thing if this ban was done just after 9-11, but now it's only cynical populism that plays to a small, hysterical and ignorant segment of the population. It's the exact same as building the wall, which might have made some sense once upon a time, but now is just an outdated idea. The much bigger threat is in the customs and import area, where only a small percentage of goods shipped here are actually screened.
 
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