The Trump Presidency

50PoundHead said:
Yeah, Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning were both on the National Security Council under Obama. I like Greenwald, but that's a pretty weak analogy. Like Julio, I think Obama's aversion to leaks and penchant for secrecy are extremely relevant to the conversation.
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To be fair, it is obvious to everyone that Obama had a very friendly mainstream media on his side and that Trump does not.
 
Runnin said:
Do you mean that other administrations clumsily broke The Logan Act then had the VP elect go on TV and lie about it? Or do you mean that other Presidents were elected with the help of a foreign govt while basically bragging about it the whole time?
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Just that other presidents were able to hide these infractions better many due to a less divided nation.
 
thethe said:
I would agree trump is his own worst enemy but let's not act like these things that the media is going crazy over haven't happened countless times in prior administrations.
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It seems clear to me Trump will keep being Trump and the forces arrayed against him will keep going after him, b both honestly and dishonestly. It's just a matter of when it will all come crashing down. It's not going to be pretty.
 
I've read of "Deep Government" twice recently - once in regard to the Indonesian Christian governor being charged with blasphemy (against Islam) and the Deep Government behind such charges. And now, with the spooks who've taken out Flynn (btw, not a good guy in my book). I'm thinking we all - no matter the letter on our jersey, should be uncomfortable, not only with Trump, but with the way this is all unfolding.
 
Jaw said:
To be fair, it is obvious to everyone that Obama had a very friendly mainstream media on his side and that Trump does not.
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Not jut media. There are factions in department agencies that are making in their purpose to get dirt on the current admin.
 
thethe said:
Not jut media. There are factions in department agencies that are making in their purpose to get dirt on the current admin.
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What factions can't find dirt on him? There's dirt everywhere. Apparently the FBI and others knew about the communication with Russia during the campaign and hid it. Thus far the government seems to have done its best to protect Trump. One has to wonder why.
 
BedellBrave said:
I've read of "Deep Government" twice recently - once in regard to the Indonesian Christian governor being charged with blasphemy (against Islam) and the Deep Government behind such charges. And now, with the spooks who've taken out Flynn (btw, not a good guy in my book). I'm thinking we all - no matter the letter on our jersey, should be uncomfortable, not only with Trump, but with the way this is all unfolding.
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Agreed, and it's also not necessarily wise to jump to conclusions about the "spooks who've taken out Flynn."

This article is a pretty good rundown on how the Flynn thing likely went down.

Some things that occur to me. First, this stuff has been known to Congress for a while, so some of the sources may very well be Congressional staff instead of Intel. officials. That doesn't necessarily make it kosher, but it does look more like business as usual than like a shadowy coup by the IC. Second, as much rightful concern as there is about leaks, I think it's worth asking if the Trump WH, especially now that AG Sessions is in place, would have been forthcoming about any of this without some sunlight hitting it. Their track record is not encouraging. Third, on the contact with Russia front, there are on-record quotes from at least one Russian official about contact with the Trump campaign during the election.

I think your statement is reasonable, and I'd add as a caveat not to bite too hard on the "rogue spy"/"Deep State" narrative until we know more. If we're to withhold judgement about the motivations for the WH's consistent untruths about contact with Russia until it's been further unpacked, I'd say the same about the sources/methods/protocols within the IC.
 
I think they're all, Congress including, scrambling around trying to contain this. They have to be really careful with Flynn lest he squeal and bring them all down with him.
 
Runnin said:
I think they're all, Congress including, scrambling around trying to contain this. They have to be really careful with Flynn lest he squeal and bring them all down with him.
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Ryan took a very hard line on Russia this morning.

Plus, there's this (Iranian Quds force leader sanctioned by US visits Moscow last night), a Russian spy ship hanging out off the coast, and Russian jets buzzing a US ship when the Flynn thing started to pop. Taken together, it might amount to a message from Moscow.
 
Julio3000 said:
Ryan took a very hard line on Russia this morning.

Plus, there's this (Iranian Quds force leader sanctioned by US visits Moscow last night), a Russian spy ship hanging out off the coast, and Russian jets buzzing a US ship when the Flynn thing started to pop. Taken together, it might amount to a message from Moscow.
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Why would Russia start these provocations now, with Trump's WH already in a vise grip?

Is Putin's plan just to throw the U.S. govt into chaos? It's working.
 
thethe said:
Not jut media. There are factions in department agencies that are making in their purpose to get dirt on the current admin.
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MAGA. Drain the Swamp. When will Agent Orange act on his promises. Where's the wall. The big beautiful wall. Where's the check from Mexico.
 
Runnin said:
Why would Russia start these provocations now, with Trump's WH already in a vise grip?
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I didn't even mention the deployment of a new cruise missile that apparently contravenes the disarmament treaty.

I don't know. It just seems like too much stuff in a short period of time to be a coincidence. And it's all happening while we are missing a huge chunk of our NatSec apparatus (permanent NSA/deputy/staff, undersecretaries at State and Defense). Are they probing to see what kind of response they get from the WH, testing the level of goodwill that exists? Are they warning the administration not to upset the applecart? Are they simply trying to destabilize and sow confusion? Could be any or all of those things. Could be nothing. One thing I will say is that Putin may be a spook, but he is not subtle.

It's also happening while the Israeli PM is in town, and they stand to lose if we lend legitimacy to Russia's influence in Syria.
 
Be careful what you wish for. Pence is hardcore as Trump is a semi Democrat that goes for the lowest denominator of control or money.

When Pence takeover from Pres. Douchebag, aka Agent Orange, I wonder what 57 will post about since Pence won't tweet, has few skeletons or what not (just a hardass Conservative). Should I invest in a straight jacket and send the orderlies to his house?
 
Jaw said:
To be fair, it is obvious to everyone that Obama had a very friendly mainstream media on his side and that Trump does not.
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or maybe Obama was better at Presidenting than Trump !
kinda like a baseball manager that declares war on sportswriters then his team goes into the inevitable tailspin and they smell blood

The oldest rule in politics "never go to war with those that buy ink by the barrel "
 
Julio3000 said:
I didn't even mention the deployment of a new cruise missile that apparently contravenes the disarmament treaty.

I don't know. It just seems like too much stuff in a short period of time to be a coincidence. And it's all happening while we are missing a huge chunk of our NatSec apparatus (permanent NSA/deputy/staff, undersecretaries at State and Defense). Are they probing to see what kind of response they get from the WH, testing the level of goodwill that exists? Are they warning the administration not to upset the applecart? Are they simply trying to destabilize and sow confusion? Could be any or all of those things. Could be nothing. One thing I will say is that Putin may be a spook, but he is not subtle.

It's also happening while the Israeli PM is in town, and they stand to lose if we lend legitimacy to Russia's influence in Syria.
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Yes, I'm reading it to. It's really surprising to me how oafish and slow our paranoid protection apparatus actually is. Not to mention how dumb a guy who was supposed to have experience in the Intelligence field was when it came to covering his own tracks.
 
57Brave said:
or maybe Obama was better at Presidenting than Trump !
kinda like a baseball manager that declares war on sportswriters then his team goes into the inevitable tailspin and they smell blood

The oldest rule in politics "never go to war with those that buy ink by the barrel "
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Obama is light years better at than Trump, hell my 6 year old son is.

The matter of the fact is that Trump and Obama share one quality my Black Caucus friends say, his ego equals Trump and probably then some.

Obama is not an idiot, Trump is. Obama had a goal of being in a legacy group and will not intentionally hurt people, just ignore them. Trump just like to win and will step on people, insult people, grind them up, regardless, which makes him a douchebag.
 
AerchAngel said:
Be careful what you wish for. Pence is hardcore as Trump is a semi Democrat that goes for the lowest denominator of control or money.

When Pence takeover from Pres. Douchebag, aka Agent Orange, I wonder what 57 will post about since Pence won't tweet, has few skeletons or what not (just a hardass Conservative). Should I invest in a straight jacket and send the orderlies to his house?
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I find Pence deplorable. 35 ways to Sunday
There are no worries about a Pence Presidency in the Trumpian sense.
Of course we have disagreement on policy .

Which would be a welcome change.
For everyone

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politi...rd-meteoric-rise-controversial-political-past
 
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