Political Correctness

mqt said:
So is the argument here that trans-kids cannot play sports at all? Because that seems really ****ty.
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I personally believe it should be illegal for anyone under 18 and not out of high school to begin transitioning, but yes they shouldn't be allowed to play competitive sports if they have an unfair advantage. If it makes you feel better the vast majority of the population doesn't play sports in college.
 
Is it a lack of political correctness to tell people that still think Obama is a Muslim and is running a shadow government behind Trump that they're f------ idiots?
 
Krgrecw said:
I'm sure that if your daughter went up against a girl who used to be a dude in a game you'd mind.
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I'm guessing my hypothetical daughter wouldn't be going up against a ****ing linebacker. To go back to my previous article, those who are transitioning are often taking a hormone treatment that should effectively render any biological advantages they might be born with moot. In terms of my parental instincts, I err more on the side of how I'd feel if my son was transgender and just wanted to play a sport.

As far as the case that started the discussion, I'd prefer the state of Texas allow the athlete to compete with the boys, but I still would have no issue with the kid being allowed to wrestle the girls if the state is going to pull that ****.
 
sturg33 said:
The real question is what is the appropriate pronoun to use.

Let's get to the real issues people
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I understand this is a joke, but this is why I get annoyed with discussions of political correctness. I will grant that some people have allowed PC-culture or whatever to run amok, but when a discussion on real-life problems faced by children is interjected with a joke regarding how people get hung up on minor details, I feel there's a break down. Trust me, I understand that "liberals" do the exact opposite, but it doesn't change the fact that both sides do it.

Edit: For the record, I'm not actually going after the joke. I get it, but it just got me thinking about the point I was making about these discussions at large.
 
Charles Clymer‏Verified account @cmclymer 15h15 hours ago

1/ It's difficult for me to buy the "listen to Trump voters" reasoning as if by hearing them out, profound insight will emerge. (thread)
 
Krgrecw said:
I'm sure that if your daughter went up against a girl who used to be a dude in a game you'd mind.
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You folks do realize that in order for an MtF transgendered student to compete on a girls' team, they would have to be chemically castrated through hormone therapy. Really takes away advantages related to biological sex. Everyone seems to think that Johnny is going to get cut from the boys' junior varsity team and come to school in a dress and demand to play on the girls' team. I can only speak for Minnesota's experience on the issue and that's simply not happening.
 
50PoundHead said:
You folks do realize that in order for an MtF transgendered student to compete on a girls' team, they would have to be chemically castrated through hormone therapy. Really takes away advantages related to biological sex. Everyone seems to think that Johnny is going to get cut from the boys' junior varsity team and come to school in a dress and demand to play on the girls' team. I can only speak for Minnesota's experience on the issue and that's simply not happening.
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So you are saying that Minnesota law stipulates that chemical castration (or some other measure of transition) must be complete before a male-to-female athlete is allowed to play on the female team (or vice versa)?
 
Sadly... this is not satire

Cardiff Metropolitan University has revised their code of practice to demand that male-centric terms be removed in favor of more gender neutral language. They were kind enough however to offer some replacement options.

Words such as “mankind,” and “gentleman’s agreement” are out. Add “forefathers,” “sportsmanship,” and “right-hand man,” as well.

Failure to comply with the code could mean that students and staff would face disciplinary procedures, so as not to allow people’s cultural backgrounds to affect their choice of words. The words homosexual and heterosexual are also on the chopping block, since the university argues that they are “laden with the values of a previous time.

Not everyone is happy with the proposed bans on free speech.

The Independent reported that University of Kent lecturer Dr. Joanna Williams stated that the ban was unnecessary, saying:

“The idea that in a university people need to be dictated to in this way is really insulting to students and academics, we should be able to cope with words. These words have evolved over a long period of time and they don’t have sexist associations.”

Cardiff Metropolitan University responded to accusations that they were clamping down on free speech with the following statement:

“The University is committed unreservedly to the principle of academic freedom within the law. It is also committed to providing an environment where everyone is valued and treated with dignity and respect. These two commitments are cornerstones of academic life at the University. The Code of Practice on Using Inclusive Language sets out a broad approach to promoting fairness and equality through raising awareness about the effects of potentially discriminatory vocabulary. In particular, it includes some suggestions to support gender equality; these are consistent with other guidance (e.g., British Sociological Association’s information on Equality and Diversity).”

The Independent has the full list of words on the ban list along with their replacements:

Cardiff Metropolitan University’s Guide to Inclusive Language:

Term – Suggested alternative
“Best man for the job” – Best person for the job
“Businessman/woman” – Businessperson, manager, executive
“Chairman/woman” – Chair, chairperson, convenor, head
“Charwoman, cleaning lady” – Cleaner
“Craftsman/woman” – Craftsperson, craft worker
“Delivery man” – Delivery clerk, courier
“Dear Sirs” – Dear Sir/Madam (or Madam/Sir)
“Fireman” – Fire-fighter
“Forefathers” – Ancestors, forebears
“Foreman/woman” – Supervisor, head juror
“Gentleman’s agreement” – Unwritten agreement, agreement based on trust
“Girls” (for adults) – Women
“Headmaster/mistress” – Head teacher
“Housewife” – Shopper, consumer, homemaker (depends on context)
“Layman” – Lay person
“Man” or “mankind” – Humanity, humankind, human race, people
“Man” (verb) eg man the desk – Operate, staff, work at
“Man in the street”, “common man” – Average/ordinary/typical citizen/person – but is there such a person?
“Man-hour” – Work-hour, labor time
“Man-made” – Artificial, manufactured, synthetic
“Manpower” – Human resources, labour force, staff, personnel, workers, workforce
“Miss/Mrs” – Ms unless a specific preference has been stated – though its common not to use titles at all these days
“Policeman/woman” – Police Officer
“Right-hand man” – Chief assistant
“Salesman/girl/woman” – Sales assistant/agent/clerk/representative/staff/worker
“Spokesman/woman” – Spokesperson, representative
“Sportsmanship” – Fairness, good humor, sense of fair play
“Steward/ess” – Airline staff, flight attendant, cabin crew
“Tax man” – Tax officer/inspector
“Waitress” – Waiter, server
“Woman doctor” (or feminine forms of nouns eg actress, poetess) – Doctor (actor, poet etc)
“Working man”, “working mother/wife” – Wage-earner/taxpayer/worker
“Workman” – Worker/operative/trades person
“Workmanlike” – Efficient/proficient/skilfull/thorough
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I would love to see the PC police tackle the Spanish language. The idea of a white male only college sounds so appealing nowadays. Dont have to worry about offending anyone and if a girl accuses you of rape she actually has to to go to the police.
 
Hawk said:
So you are saying that Minnesota law stipulates that chemical castration (or some other measure of transition) must be complete before a male-to-female athlete is allowed to play on the female team (or vice versa)?
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A student wishing to be gender non-conforming must also have documentation from a mental health professional regarding the validity of the students' preferred gender expression. I was looking at the first draft that required hormone therapy for an MtF to compete. That requirement has not been set in stone, but school activities directors have the final say on whether or not a gender non-conforming student can compete. There is a difference between participation in the arts and athletics. I have yet to hear of a problem.

A number of states do require an MtF to be on testosterone suppressants. While that is somewhat drastic, it also clarifies the issue.
 
50PoundHead said:
A student wishing to be gender non-conforming must also have documentation from a mental health professional regarding the validity of the students' preferred gender expression. I was looking at the first draft that required hormone therapy for an MtF to compete. That requirement has not been set in stone, but school activities directors have the final say on whether or not a gender non-conforming student can compete. There is a difference between participation in the arts and athletics. I have yet to hear of a problem.

A number of states do require an MtF to be on testosterone suppressants. While that is somewhat drastic, it also clarifies the issue.
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Interesting. So it sounds like Minnesota law doesn't (yet) delegate guidelines for a situation where one school disagrees with another's decision to allow a transitioning male-to-female athlete to compete (obviously, under grounds related to the transition process).
 
Hawk said:
Interesting. So it sounds like Minnesota law doesn't (yet) delegate guidelines for a situation where one school disagrees with another's decision to allow a transitioning male-to-female athlete to compete (obviously, under grounds related to the transition process).
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I see the high school league lobbyist pretty much every day this time of year. I will ask him your question. I don't know the answer.
 
Hawk, talked to the lawyer today. Minnesota's high school league rule has no appeal process for a team that objects to the participation of a transgendered student on an opposing team. That said, there has yet to be any complaint lodged with the high school league regarding the policy. Minnesota has allowed girls to try out for and participate on boys' teams for a few decades now and there are a few girl wrestlers. But we have yet to see a 6-4, 250 pound Arnold Schwarzenegger look-alikes on a girls' team. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen at some point and it will be wild when it does. The Republicans control the Legislature and they have introduced a "bathroom bill" that won't go anywhere as long as our Governor is against it. Curious to see what happens if the Republicans control state government top-to-bottom after the 2018 elections.

Funny thing. I'm so old that there were no high school league sanctioned girls' sports when I was in high school. A few of my female classmates were awesome athletes. One would have been the best long jumper on the track team had she been allowed to compete and a pair of 6-2 inch twins went on to play college basketball and were part of a women's barnstorming team for a few years after that.
 
50PoundHead said:
Hawk, talked to the lawyer today. Minnesota's high school league rule has no appeal process for a team that objects to the participation of a transgendered student on an opposing team. That said, there has yet to be any complaint lodged with the high school league regarding the policy. Minnesota has allowed girls to try out for and participate on boys' teams for a few decades now and there are a few girl wrestlers. But we have yet to see a 6-4, 250 pound Arnold Schwarzenegger look-alikes on a girls' team. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen at some point and it will be wild when it does. The Republicans control the Legislature and they have introduced a "bathroom bill" that won't go anywhere as long as our Governor is against it. Curious to see what happens if the Republicans control state government top-to-bottom after the 2018 elections.

Funny thing. I'm so old that there were no high school league sanctioned girls' sports when I was in high school. A few of my female classmates were awesome athletes. One would have been the best long jumper on the track team had she been allowed to compete and a pair of 6-2 inch twins went on to play college basketball and were part of a women's barnstorming team for a few years after that.
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Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing. I wonder if this might be addressed, on a national scale, whenever the Supreme Court decides to take up the transgender 'issue' again.
 
Hawk said:
Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing. I wonder if this might be addressed, on a national scale, whenever the Supreme Court decides to take up the transgender 'issue' again.
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Working with schools like I do, they have been supportive of transgender students pretty much without exception. The administrators I know weren't happy with Obama's directive, but they also want to avoid a North Carolina situation. I know one superintendent whose district is in the legislative district of one of the most ardent anti-trans legislators. When the legislator asked him if he'd support a limited bathroom access bill, the superintendent responded "We have had transgender students in our district." The legislator got apoplectic and said "Well, what did you do?" The superintendent responded "We figured it out." Most schools have smaller restrooms that can be used by either sex and I believe that's how the superintendent solved the problem. There was no revolt in the community and enough people knew about it so that it wasn't a total secret. I don't believe the transgender student participated in athletics, so they dodged that bullet.

On the other side of the ledger, I know a superintendent who absolutely wants guidance on the issue and he doesn't care which way it goes. He's sympathetic to the student, but he really wants to be able to say "someone else made the decision for the district."
 
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