2017 Opening Day Roster Taking Shape

thewupk said:
That remains to be seen but the money involved is a pretty big deal. We are paying a combined 30 million for Kemp and Colon and I doubt we get much more than 2 WAR combined out of both of them. Wood is making 2.8 million and is likely a 1.5-2 WAR pitcher at worst. Then there is Perza who would certainly have a spot on this team as currently constructed.

There is a lot of talk that money spent doesn't really matter when a team is rebuilding (like has been the argument regarding Markakis) and I agree to a point. But a time is coming soon when we will need that money to make legitimate improvements to make this a contender and that can't happen with players like Kemp taking up so much payroll.
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Wood produced 1.3 WAR in a mere 60 IPs last year.. his health is obviously a concern, but he is a damn good pitcher when he's out there.

Peraza looks like he will be a 2 WAR player at minimum and maybe more depending on some variables.

Both of these players are cheap, young, good, and give us a lot of flexibility.
 
thewupk said:
That remains to be seen but the money involved is a pretty big deal. We are paying a combined 30 million for Kemp and Colon and I doubt we get much more than 2 WAR combined out of both of them. Wood is making 2.8 million and is likely a 1.5-2 WAR pitcher at worst. Then there is Perza who would certainly have a spot on this team as currently constructed.

There is a lot of talk that money spent doesn't really matter when a team is rebuilding (like has been the argument regarding Markakis) and I agree to a point. But a time is coming soon when we will need that money to make legitimate improvements to make this a contender and that can't happen with players like Kemp taking up so much payroll.
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And even if Wood and Peraza still ended up being traded, they should've netted significantly more of a return in prospects that could have been helpful.
 
CJ9 said:
And even if Wood and Peraza still ended up being traded, they should've netted significantly more of a return in prospects that could have been helpful.
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Trading 2 young and controllable assets for a guy who at best had a couple years left of his prime is not very smart. Especially when the team is clearly rebuilding. A move for HO (assuming he wasn't a woman beater and could actually play still) is something a contending team with a hole or two to fill would make.
 
CJ9 said:
Wentz was taken with the pick in that trade, not Muller.
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For some reason I thought it was the other way. Doesn't make a ton of difference either way as Wentz and Muller could probably have been interchangable in their spots takes.
 
We DID give up a lot....not like the Shelby Miller trade (thanks goodness), but those guys had value and could have gotten us a nice return thru either prospects or a MLB player. They could have and should have been moved in separate deals if they were just determined to trade them (which they were). It's a top five "worst trade ever" for the Braves and possible #2 or #3....
 
TheBravos said:
We DID give up a lot....not like the Shelby Miller trade (thanks goodness), but those guys had value and could have gotten us a nice return thru either prospects or a MLB player. They could have and should have been moved in separate deals if they were just determined to trade them (which they were). It's a top five "worst trade ever" for the Braves and possible #2 or #3....
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Yes but admitting this cold fact undermines the "Coppy is a genius" narrative.
 
sturg33 said:
Yes but admitting this cold fact undermines the "Coppy is a genius" narrative.
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That narrative is annoying. I think Coppy has done a good job so far. He has put us in a pretty good spot with all the talent in the minors. We should be able to contend within a couple of seasons. He has made some really good moves and had a couple of poor ones. But overall the franchise is in a good spot going forward imo.

With that being said it's still too early in his tenure to really say what kind of GM he is. He's done a good job but honestly that is to be expected with what he was given. With the talent we've traded away and the money spent in the international market we should have a deep farm and we do. He hasn't royally screwed up which honestly is saying a lot when looking at other teams around the league.
 
MadduxFanII said:
So, the Braves have decided they will:

1. Go with an eight-man bullpen
2. Place O'Flaherty and Bonifacio on the roster
3. Release - not option, straight release - Paco Rodriguez

I like none of those things. The bench is now Peterson, Bonifacio, D'Arnaud and Suzuki. That...does not inspire confidence.

EDIT: I see you guys have already discussed this. Whoops.
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Doesn't hurt to hear it again.

Upon further reflection, perhaps it does.
 
TheBravos said:
We DID give up a lot....not like the Shelby Miller trade (thanks goodness), but those guys had value and could have gotten us a nice return thru either prospects or a MLB player. They could have and should have been moved in separate deals if they were just determined to trade them (which they were). It's a top five "worst trade ever" for the Braves and possible #2 or #3....
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I'm not saying that they didn't have value at the time of the trade. Like I said, it was a bad deal and I said so at the time it was made. I've never liked that deal.

But in hindsight (which is what we're using by saying it was horrendous because Olivera sucks), Wood has been bad the last 2 years, and Peraza is never likely to amount to anything. So both of them have less value now than they did at the time of the trade, and neither is likely to become anything.

One of the worst trades in the history of the franchise can't be viewed years down the road as a 'wait, who are any of these guys on either side?' Bad deal that was made worse by bad luck but also made better by good luck. Still bad, just definitely not in 'worst trade ever' territory.
 
I disliked the Paco release for a bit, but saw someone mention Minter will eventually return from his injury. Forgot about him. That made me feel better.
 
smootness said:
I'm not saying that they didn't have value at the time of the trade. Like I said, it was a bad deal and I said so at the time it was made. I've never liked that deal.

But in hindsight (which is what we're using by saying it was horrendous because Olivera sucks), Wood has been bad the last 2 years, and Peraza is never likely to amount to anything. So both of them have less value now than they did at the time of the trade, and neither is likely to become anything.

One of the worst trades in the history of the franchise can't be viewed years down the road as a 'wait, who are any of these guys on either side?' Bad deal that was made worse by bad luck but also made better by good luck. Still bad, just definitely not in 'worst trade ever' territory.
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How can you say Peraza won't likely ever amount to much? He's torn the cover off the ball in the majors and has stolen a crap load of bases so far. He's having a huge spring and was a top prospect. I agree with a lot of your posts but I don't see how you come to this conclusion.

If anything Peraza is a ton more valuable now because he's actually shown he can be a very good MLB starter. Really confused about your Peraza evaluation. I think you should go look at the numbers.
 
smootness said:
I'm not saying that they didn't have value at the time of the trade. Like I said, it was a bad deal and I said so at the time it was made. I've never liked that deal.

But in hindsight (which is what we're using by saying it was horrendous because Olivera sucks), Wood has been bad the last 2 years, and Peraza is never likely to amount to anything. So both of them have less value now than they did at the time of the trade, and neither is likely to become anything.

One of the worst trades in the history of the franchise can't be viewed years down the road as a 'wait, who are any of these guys on either side?' Bad deal that was made worse by bad luck but also made better by good luck. Still bad, just definitely not in 'worst trade ever' territory.
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I mean... it just seems like you are ignoring a basic reality.

Alex Wood and Jose Peraza are BOTH good players.

Alex Wood has produced 2.3 WAR per 150 IP over the last 3 years. And last year was his best WAR/IP.

Jose Peraza averaged 1.6 WAR extrapolated over 600 PAs last year. He hit .324 and stole 21 bases in just 72 games... at age 22. His WAR was hurt by his defense, which is probably an aberration due to him playing multiple positions and playing sporadically... I'd expect playing full time at 2b will really help his defense, and also expect his offense to come back down this year.

No matter how you slice it, both are good players. Both are young. Both are cheap. And we replaced them with the likes of Bartolo Colon (@ $13M), Brandon Phillips (washed up, who the Reds shipped out to make room for Peraza), and Matt Kemp - a league average player making upper echelon money for the next 3 years.
 
zbhargrove said:
How can you say Peraza won't likely ever amount to much? He's torn the cover off the ball in the majors and has stolen a crap load of bases so far. He's having a huge spring and was a top prospect. I agree with a lot of your posts but I don't see how you come to this conclusion.
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some people around here wrote Peraza off for no good reason and seem stuck in that mindset
 
nsacpi said:
some people around here wrote Peraza off for no good reason and seem stuck in that mindset
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I did initially to help justify trade. But he will be intriuging to watch this year. I wonder if MLB pitching will figure his inability to walk out or will he adjust.
 
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