The Big 4

In reality...there will also be a non big name that will surprise and be a solid #3-#4 also that we haven't really mentioned (like Mader who was actually a third round pick).

Guys like Newcomb (who didn't pitch as much up north), just develop slowly. I am guessing he will hit around 25, and he really isn't doing bad right now AT ALL. He could never come close to his potential and still be a solid #4-#5. I HATE the Simmons trade, but I still think he will be a good MLB pitcher in time.

Good gosh Gohara is still a baby and killing it. As are most of our young guys. Do you even realize how rare it is for someone like Anderson to do what he is doing, or Soroka?? Fried is older, and that is somewhat expected. Touki still has a few more years of development and is coming along. He is really on a normal path for a pitcher, but we expect him to keep a 1.50 ERA....that's not how it works in the minors.

If there is really anyone to me that looks to be a bust for his draft position...it's Wentz. His velocity and arm problems at his age do not give me a good feeling. At the same time, I feel is Wentz or Muller fail at pitching, they could be converted to position players. Some teams even wanted to draft Muller as a hitter. With both of these guys sizes....they should be able to pop 95 with little effort.
 
The incredible thing about our rebuild is that we have so many pitchers that our rotation AND bullpen could be super solid. I almost expect our bullpen to be good year in and year out.
 
Give me guys that can throw strikes:

Allard

Fried

Soroka

Anderson

In that order.

Guys like Gohara, Touki, Newcomb and Sims are lottery tickets, and it is even harder to plan long term around them than it is with the "sure thing" pitchers.
 
Enscheff said:
Give me guys that can throw strikes:

Allard
Fried
Soroka
Anderson

In that order.

Guys like Gohara, Touki, Newcomb and Sims are lottery tickets, and it is even harder to plan long term around them than it is with the "sure thing" pitchers.
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I think Gohara belongs in the first list. I agree with you that Touki and to some degree Newcomb are more in the lottery-ticket category (I don't think Sims projects as an MLB SP), but Gohara doesn't have the same control issues, at least not anymore. Based on last season, the AFL, and his first couple starts this year, it seems he's not in that category. He is harnessing his stuff well.
 
smootness said:
I think Gohara belongs in the first list. I agree with you that Touki and to some degree Newcomb are more in the lottery-ticket category (I don't think Sims projects as an MLB SP), but Gohara doesn't have the same control issues, at least not anymore. Based on last season, the AFL, and his first couple starts this year, it seems he's not in that category. He is harnessing his stuff well.
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I still need a longer track record for him. And maybe above A+ too, before I really start believing. I listened to his last start and he was wild.. I think by the end of the 3rd inning he had a 1:1 ball/strike ratio.. he was effective, but he wasn't TOR starter.. That said, for him to control himself and stay in that game through 5 without his best stuff is something more of a positive...
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I still need a longer track record for him. And maybe above A+ too, before I really start believing. I listened to his last start and he was wild.. I think by the end of the 3rd inning he had a 1:1 ball/strike ratio.. he was effective, but he wasn't TOR starter.. That said, for him to control himself and stay in that game through 5 without his best stuff is something more of a positive...
Click to expand...

Yeah, but to some degree I think we're expecting too much too soon out of some of these pitching prospects. Gohara is 20 and just now pitching above low-A, it would be a surprise if he was just mowing down everybody he faced like he was ready for the majors.

I'm just saying that I don't see him as similar to Touki. Touki has electric stuff, everybody knows that, but everybody also knows he's had some serious command issues that he has to work out. That is the definition of a lottery ticket. Gohara hasn't had the same command issues, at least not for the last year-plus. That also doesn't mean he has pinpoint command every time out, either. He's a pitching prospect who, again, is 20. So it stands to reason he'll have times where he struggles with command, location, release point, etc. Fried still struggles with the same things from time to time, as does every pitching prospect ever. Even Kershaw had struggles like that initially.
 
smootness said:
Yeah, but to some degree I think we're expecting too much too soon out of some of these pitching prospects. Gohara is 20 and just now pitching above low-A, it would be a surprise if he was just mowing down everybody he faced like he was ready for the majors.

I'm just saying that I don't see him as similar to Touki. Touki has electric stuff, everybody knows that, but everybody also knows he's had some serious command issues that he has to work out. That is the definition of a lottery ticket. Gohara hasn't had the same command issues, at least not for the last year-plus. That also doesn't mean he has pinpoint command every time out, either. He's a pitching prospect who, again, is 20. So it stands to reason he'll have times where he struggles with command, location, release point, etc. Fried still struggles with the same things from time to time, as does every pitching prospect ever. Even Kershaw had struggles like that initially.
Click to expand...

I agree.. Man I wish Touki could harness his stuff. I have listened to 2 of his games in total, but both games when he got even strike 1 on the guy, he generally dominated that hitter. He gets killed because he is constantly in a 2-0 count.
 
Allard is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Soroka is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Anderson is 19, in his first full pro season, and has no history of control issues.

Maybe I am hyping Fried too much in my head compared to Gohara, but in no way is Gohara in the same tier as the elite young Braves pitchers.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
The incredible thing about our rebuild is that we have so many pitchers that our rotation AND bullpen could be super solid. I almost expect our bullpen to be good year in and year out.
Click to expand...

i hope so. we should have a nasty pen

youd think we would be in a spot to do multiinning rps to given most guys will be former starters. Jackson, Simms, Weigal, Minter would be a decent start
 
TheBravos said:
In reality...there will also be a non big name that will surprise and be a solid #3-#4 also that we haven't really mentioned (like Mader who was actually a third round pick).

Guys like Newcomb (who didn't pitch as much up north), just develop slowly. I am guessing he will hit around 25, and he really isn't doing bad right now AT ALL. He could never come close to his potential and still be a solid #4-#5. I HATE the Simmons trade, but I still think he will be a good MLB pitcher in time.

Good gosh Gohara is still a baby and killing it. As are most of our young guys. Do you even realize how rare it is for someone like Anderson to do what he is doing, or Soroka?? Fried is older, and that is somewhat expected. Touki still has a few more years of development and is coming along. He is really on a normal path for a pitcher, but we expect him to keep a 1.50 ERA....that's not how it works in the minors.

If there is really anyone to me that looks to be a bust for his draft position...it's Wentz. His velocity and arm problems at his age do not give me a good feeling. At the same time, I feel is Wentz or Muller fail at pitching, they could be converted to position players. Some teams even wanted to draft Muller as a hitter. With both of these guys sizes....they should be able to pop 95 with little effort.
Click to expand...

Wentz probably just needs to get his surgery out of the way and then we will see.

......

I don't see a whole lot of chance most of these starters who don't pan out end up as relievers. More likely to be traded to teams that want to try a reclamation or released. Probably for not much in return if traded.
 
Enscheff said:
Give me guys that can throw strikes:

Allard
Fried
Soroka
Anderson

In that order.

Guys like Gohara, Touki, Newcomb and Sims are lottery tickets, and it is even harder to plan long term around them than it is with the "sure thing" pitchers.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd put Gohara in that group in terms of control. He has 3.1 BB/9 in his minor league career on full season teams and Fried has a 4.2 BB/9 in those same situations.
 
Enscheff said:
Allard is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Soroka is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Anderson is 19, in his first full pro season, and has no history of control issues.

Maybe I am hyping Fried too much in my head compared to Gohara, but in no way is Gohara in the same tier as the elite young Braves pitchers.
Click to expand...

Just about every starter throwing over 90 mph in the minors has atleast some control issues. Allard was bombing in Low A this time last year and I doubt it was because his stuff was bad.
 
Enscheff said:
Allard is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Soroka is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Anderson is 19, in his first full pro season, and has no history of control issues.

Maybe I am hyping Fried too much in my head compared to Gohara, but in no way is Gohara in the same tier as the elite young Braves pitchers.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying Gohara isn't in the same category as Touki or even Newcomb, though he's closer to Newcomb. Perhaps we need multiple tiers.

Elite, young, no strugges:
Allard
Soroka
Anderson

Big-time prospects, have had struggles/issues/injuries, or aren't as young:
Fried
Gohara
Newcomb
Weigel

Lottery tickets, or too early to know much:
Touki
Wentz
Muller
Wilson
 
smootness said:
I'm just saying Gohara isn't in the same category as Touki or even Newcomb, though he's closer to Newcomb. Perhaps we need multiple tiers.

Elite, young, no strugges:

Allard

Soroka

Anderson

Big-time prospects, have had struggles/issues/injuries, or aren't as young:

Fried

Gohara

Newcomb

Weigel

Lottery tickets, or too early to know much:

Touki

Wentz

Muller

Wilson
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good summation.
 
Enscheff said:
Allard is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Soroka is 19, in AA, and doesn't have control issues.

Anderson is 19, in his first full pro season, and has no history of control issues.

Maybe I am hyping Fried too much in my head compared to Gohara, but in no way is Gohara in the same tier as the elite young Braves pitchers.
Click to expand...

that was my thing about giving away povse. that dude never walks anybody. what a rare commodity.. oh well.

agree, by and large, i want guys who throw strikes.

but it sure is nice to have some time to develop some of the other guys. just a tick down on the walk meter and a number of the other hard throwers in the system could explode. (newcomb, weigel?)
 
don't the odds behind fried making it big stack way up against him given his injury history? i thought i saw some graph that basically said to forget about it.

he's never had tremendous numbers either so i dunno. the hype is there, but he feels about 200 miles away from where Soroka is right now in terms of big league potential. that dude is consistently dominant at every stop, is young, and has never has his elbow cut.

Soroka, Allard, and Anderson are the clear top 3 right now in my eyes.

I like Weigel's chances of joining that group as a big 4 before long.
 
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