Luis Robert Leaves Cuba

Enscheff said:
You really do twist logic around in your head haha.

The White Sox have been rebuilding for about 4 months. We are discussing the process of the White Sox rebuild vs the process of the Braves rebuild, so most of the "points" you listed about them fall outside the time frame of the rebuild, and are irrelevant (a common theme for most "facts" you try to use to defend your positions).

I have never said the White Sox FO was amazing. I said they have orchestrated the first stages of their rebuild flawlessly, unlike the Braves. Claiming they have piloted the first 4 months of a rebuild perfectly is NOT equivalent to saying they are an amazing FO, or that they will be able to build a winner. It is unsurprising you are unable to distinguish those not-so-subtle facts though.

Did the White Sox water down the value of Sale by attaching a bad contract to him? No, they maximized the return for him.

Did the White Sox water down the value of Eaton by insisting the Nats send a crappy MLB OFer in return to replace him? No.

Did the White Sox go out and sign their version of Markakis for $44M to play for a losing team? No, they will likely use that money to sign Robert.

Is it really that hard for you to see that the White Sox are using a better process in the early stage of their rebuild? No matter how any of the prospects either team got in return ultimately performed, the White Sox are using a far superior process.

It's fine though. You simply can't grasp the concept of "process vs results". Hell, you can't even determine which facts are pertinent to the discussion at hand. Your lack of mental capacity is alarmingly. Did you have to have someone turn your PC on so you could visit these forums?
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The White Sox didn't have an player making 16 million for the next three years that they were otherwise likely to cut. Who can say what they would have done if they had.

There is no evidence that taking Aybar's salary of the Angels books in any way affected the return on the Simmons deal. You just assume that it did.

You are impressed with the White Sox because they got back Moncado and some questionable top 100 pitching prospects who are formerly well thought of.

Of course, that was never an option for Atlanta because they didn't have an asset good enough to get back Moncado. The Red Sox laughed their asses off when Atlanta proposed Moncado in a possible Teheran trade and outside of Freddie Freeman, Teheran is the only asset the Braves have had in recent memory that could possibly have landed such a return.

The White Sox certainly got back plenty of top 100 pitching prospects with concerns in the two deals. But all of a sudden the process of getting back a top 100 pitcher with concerns is really good in the White Sox context, but obviously stupid in the Braves context because of ... well some bull**** you pulled out of your ass that you tried to make sound better by putting an extra dash of arrogance into it.

I like it though. Its a good read.
 
I'm sure it further flatters you to think so, but I'm no stalker...just another simpleton Braves fan who is tired of your smug drivel.

I don't post much, but I do enjoy reading the board when I have some free time. For a good while now I find the board cluttered with page after page of the same old crap from you.

I've got better things to do than engage you further, so I'll leave you with this.

A suggestion that if the company here and the nature of the conversation is so far beneath you, maybe there's somewhere else on the world wide web that is more worthy of your time.

I can't see why a man of your intelligence could waste that gift by spending all his time on an internet message board talking about a game as simple as baseball.
 
Southcack77 said:
The White Sox didn't have an player making 16 million for the next three years that they were otherwise likely to cut. Who can say what they would have done if they had.

There is no evidence that taking Aybar's salary of the Angels books in any way affected the return on the Simmons deal. You just assume that it did.

You are impressed with the White Sox because they got back Moncado and some questionable top 100 pitching prospects who are formerly well thought of.

Of course, that was never an option for Atlanta because they didn't have an asset good enough to get back Moncado. The Red Sox laughed their asses off when Atlanta proposed Moncado in a possible Teheran trade and outside of Freddie Freeman, Teheran is the only asset the Braves have had in recent memory that could possibly have landed such a return.

The White Sox certainly got back plenty of top 100 pitching prospects with concerns in the two deals. But all of a sudden the process of getting back a top 100 pitcher with concerns is really good in the White Sox context, but obviously stupid in the Braves context because of ... well some bull**** you pulled out of your ass that you tried to make sound better by putting an extra dash of arrogance into it.

I like it though. Its a good read.
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All of this. You summarized my thoughts better than I ever have.
 
percival said:
I'm sure it further flatters you to think so, but I'm no stalker...just another simpleton Braves fan who is tired of your smug drivel.
I don't post much, but I do enjoy reading the board when I have some free time. For a good while now I find the board cluttered with page after page of the same old crap from you.

I've got better things to do than engage you further, so I'll leave you with this.

A suggestion that if the company here and the nature of the conversation is so far beneath you, maybe there's somewhere else on the world wide web that is more worthy of your time.
I can't see why a man of your intelligence could waste that gift by spending all his time on an internet message board talking about a game as simple as baseball.
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The Enscheff intellect is dizzying for sure.
 
Enscheff said:
Go look at a calendar. It lists months in chronological order. You will need to be armed with this knowledge to understand what I am about to write.

Got your calendar? Great!

The Braves blew their budget on July 2nd. Almost all of the major international talent was gone by the first week of July.

The White Sox were still trying to contend in July. The MLB baseball season ends at the end of October. If you look at that handy calendar, you will see that October is after July.

Do you know what that means? I'll help you connect the dots...

The Braves were already rebuilding last July, the White Sox were not. By the time the White Sox decided to blow it up, there wasn't much international talent left to sign.

Again, you are bringing up points completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
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So the White Sox believed that their 40-40 record on July 1 last year, with a lineup where exactly two people OPS'd at .800 and none over .820, was good enough to be a contender? After not winning more than 72 games in any of the 3 years prior?

If so, that really only proves them to be stupid. After all, they delayed the rebuild under the very stupid belief that they could contend and cost themselves a shot at serious young talent on the international market. Sub-optimal move fo sho. Rich Hahn is a true genius.
 
The white sox traded guys with many years of control. We did that with Simba, but his offensive issues were the bring down. We did that with Kimbrel and we brought him down with BJ. I agree the Kimbrel deal was a mistake.

1 year of Sale wasn't going to get that deal. And Sale is >>>>>> than JUp or Heyward.
 
smootness said:
So the White Sox believed that their 40-40 record on July 1 last year, with a lineup where exactly two people OPS'd at .800 and none over .820, was good enough to be a contender? After not winning more than 72 games in any of the 3 years prior?

If so, that really only proves them to be stupid. After all, they delayed the rebuild under the very stupid belief that they could contend and cost themselves a shot at serious young talent on the international market. Sub-optimal move fo sho. Rich Hahn is a true genius.
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I think its interesting the White Sox couldn't assemble a winning roster or even conceive of a winning roster that could have been constructed around some of the best contracts in baseball.

Rather than continue trying, they decided on an impromptu rebuild. Good gig if you can get it.
 
smootness said:
So the White Sox believed that their 40-40 record on July 1 last year, with a lineup where exactly two people OPS'd at .800 and none over .820, was good enough to be a contender? After not winning more than 72 games in any of the 3 years prior?

If so, that really only proves them to be stupid. After all, they delayed the rebuild under the very stupid belief that they could contend and cost themselves a shot at serious young talent on the international market. Sub-optimal move fo sho. Rich Hahn is a true genius.
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pop quiz, did I say Hahn is a genius, or did I say they have executed the first 4 months of a rebuild flawlessly.

And never in the history of baseball has a team sitting at 40-40 gave up and went for a rebuild. To suggest a team would do that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say. It is a clv level moronic idea.

Can you just once use points that are actually true and relevant? Just one time?
 
Enscheff said:
pop quiz, did I say Hahn is a genius, or did I say they have executed the first 4 months of a rebuild flawlessly.

And never in the history of baseball has a team sitting at 40-40 gave up and went for a rebuild. To suggest a team would do that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say. It is a clv level moronic idea.

Can you just once use points that are actually true and relevant? Just one time?
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I'm pretty confident you've said Rick Hahn is a genius.

And everyone here is well aware that if the Braves had won no more than 72 games 3 years in a row and suddenly found themselves all the way at 40-40 with a team not build to contend, you would rip them for thinking they were actually contending and not making every effort to build for the future.
 
smootness said:
I'm pretty confident you've said Rick Hahn is a genius.

And everyone here is well aware that if the Braves had won no more than 72 games 3 years in a row and suddenly found themselves all the way at 40-40 with a team not build to contend, you would rip them for thinking they were actually contending and not making every effort to build for the future.
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Yeah, no. Just because you are "confident" in something doesn't make it fact.

This is a case of you not understanding what I've actually said. Not surprising in the least to be honest.
 
Enscheff said:
pop quiz, did I say Hahn is a genius, or did I say they have executed the first 4 months of a rebuild flawlessly.

And never in the history of baseball has a team sitting at 40-40 gave up and went for a rebuild. To suggest a team would do that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say. It is a clv level moronic idea.

Can you just once use points that are actually true and relevant? Just one time?
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It's not even unprecedented in White Sox history.
 
I'm sure we're interested, of course Coppy will want him. The question is whether we have the money, and considering that Liberty mentioned the international signings as one of the reason we reported losses last year, I'd say it's unlikely.
 
White Sox got Robert for a $25M bonus plus another $25M in luxury tax. From what I have read, he should slot in their system right behind Kopech (#13), and ahead of Lopez (#39). In the Braves' system, that translates to him being about dead even with Maitan.

So $50M for another Maitan-level prospect? That's about the surplus value of a Top 25 position player prospect. The Braves weren't even mentioned as realistic suitors. We know they had to get approval from ownership to add Matt Adams' $2M salary, so money is obviously tight for the Braves.

Did the Olivera disaster sour them on all Cuban talent?
 
Enscheff said:
White Sox got Robert for a $25M bonus plus another $25M in luxury tax. From what I have read, he should slot in their system right behind Kopech (#13), and ahead of Lopez (#39). In the Braves' system, that translates to him being about dead even with Maitan.

So $50M for another Maitan-level prospect? That's about the surplus value of a Top 25 position player prospect. The Braves weren't even mentioned as realistic suitors. We know they had to get approval from ownership to add Matt Adams' $2M salary, so money is obviously tight for the Braves.

Did the Olivera disaster sour them on all Cuban talent?
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I think they just didn't have the money to spend on this one. And he may be a Maitan-level prospect currently, but he is 3 years older and doesn't have the same ceiling. He wouldn't have challenged Maitan to be the top international prospect.

And it remains true that the White Sox just blew their pool on one guy. They really missed an opportunity to add a lot more talent during the primary signing window.
 
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