MINORS THREAD FINAL4/27 ... Walkoff HR for Franco

nsacpi said:
Weigel is 22, which is not an unusual age for AA. He is having an excellent season.

Then we have Soroka at age 19 putting up these numbers:

21 strikeouts and 3 walks in 21 innings.

If Weigel's numbers are "ridiculous" what is the right adjective for Soroka?
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weigel has big fastball. Soroka less velocity. So less interest for some.

Really want to see 3 of Wisler, Blair, Weigel, Sims, Jackson and Newcombe in ATL rotation by the end of the year. Flip all of the 1 year vets and let's see.
 
Russ2dollas said:
weigel has big fastball. Soroka less velocity. So less interest for some.

Really want to see 3 of Wisler, Blair, Weigel, Sims, Jackson and Newcombe in ATL rotation by the end of the year. Flip all of the 1 year vets and let's see.
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If you watch Jackson, you don't see starter IMO.. he just doesn't have the repeatable delivery. He needs to be slotted in as a reliever and just go with it. Otherwise, I am fine with letting Wisler, Blair, Sims, Newk sink or swim sometime after July. Weigel, I would rather let him stay down since he is not on the 40 man roster. I am fine with adding Newk since we would have open slots to add him after trades.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
That nails Newk to a tee..

however, Touki is not a pitcher with just great stuff.. I listened to two games with away announcers and they put several wows in their commentary. He is someone I would pay to go see. I wish he was in Rome so there would be some video to watch.. Florida state league needs to get on this!!
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So now instead of guys claiming to judge players with the "eye test", you are going to rely on the "ear test" now?

Seems reliable. You must be Clint Eastwood from "Trouble with the Curve".
 
Enscheff said:
So now instead of guys claiming to judge players with the "eye test", you are going to rely on the "ear test" now?

Seems reliable. You must be Clint Eastwood from "Trouble with the Curve".
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That was this year.. If you can find video of him this year then please pass that along. His stuff is already known. having guys who never seen him in person comment the way they do is only affirmation IMO.. 'trying' hard today aren't ya....
 
nsacpi said:
Weigel is 22, which is not an unusual age for AA. He is having an excellent season.

Then we have Soroka at age 19 putting up these numbers:

21 strikeouts and 3 walks in 21 innings.

If Weigel's numbers are "ridiculous" what is the right adjective for Soroka?
Click to expand...

No matter what the posi-Braves rant about while foaming at the mouth during a circle jerk, if Soroka really is living at 90-91 with his FB he won't have an impact at the MLB level. He is succeeding with mediocre stuff and advanced location/sequencing against less advanced hitters. MLB hitters will destroy him, and his upside will be limited to a back end guy.

There is a reason FG has him ranked below the 55 "stuff" guys in the system despite his results. The plus side is that he's 19 and adding 2-3 ticks to his stuff is still possible. I think Derek Lowe without the huge age 29 outlier season is his absolute upside, which is obviously nothing to scoff at, but he isn't some potential TOR guy.
 
Enscheff said:
I think Weigel will be the Braves next Folty. A huge "stuff" RHer everyone hopes can figure out how to pitch, while everyone else projects him to the BP.
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I agree with Weigel. The best I have seen Folty making hitters look silly....was not with his fastball, but with his other pitches that were never close to 90. If you have pin point location and good action...you can definitely have success with a 91 fastball.

Speed is great to have, but having three great pitches matters more. I'm not saying Soroka will be a hall of famer, but let's let him see AAA and MLB before passing judgement.
 
TheBravos said:
I agree with Weigel. The best I have seen Folty making hitters look silly....was not with his fastball, but with his other pitches that were never close to 90. If you have pin point location and good action...you can definitely have success with a 91 fastball.

Speed is great to have, but having three great pitches matters more. I'm not saying Soroka will be a hall of famer, but let's let him see AAA and MLB before passing judgement.
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The overwhelmingly vast majority of TOR guys throw mid-90s. It's a fact that no amount of comments about "knowing how to pitch", or "changing speeds", or "pinpoint location" will ever change.
 
Preacher said:
'best case scenario - late innings reliever'

Why? How in the world is that his 'best-case' scenario? I get being down on Sims, I get the command/control wanders like a hobo in Vegas... but he's 23, still strikes out a lot of batters and in AAA this year has a .72 WHIP and a .129 BAA..... his best case is still firmly in the rotation IMO.
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Afraid I have to question the thought behind this as well for only one reason...

If it's never been too late to give up on Folty finding it, and it's not too late to give up on Newcomb finding it, why is it time to give up on Wisler or Sims?

This is coming from someone who's just as impatient as everyone else - and willing to want to try turning each into back of the pen types at multiple times - but if you weren't giving up on Folty when he'd made 15-20 MLB starts and you weren't giving up on Newcomb already, it's pretty ridiculous to give up on Wisler or Sims because they're as young (or younger) as the other two.
 
Enscheff said:
The overwhelmingly vast majority of TOR guys throw mid-90s. It's a fact that no amount of comments about "knowing how to pitch", or "changing speeds", or "pinpoint location" will ever change.
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I'm not saying he will be a TOR pitcher(as some on here are really high on him). I DO like him. If he ends up being TOR guy...the cards are stacked against him. In saying that, I'm going to wait and see what he does. He definitely has less of a chance, but that doesn't mean he has no chance. At worst he has a extremly high floor and has a very high chance to be an effective #3-#5 starter. To me anyway (which doesn't hold much value).
 
clvclv said:
Afraid I have to question the thought behind this as well for only one reason...

If it's never been too late to give up on Folty finding it, and it's not too late to give up on Newcomb finding it, why is it time to give up on Wisler or Sims?

This is coming from someone who's just as impatient as everyone else - and willing to want to try turning each into back of the pen types at multiple times - but if you weren't giving up on Folty when he'd made 15-20 MLB starts and you weren't giving up on Newcomb already, it's pretty ridiculous to give up on Wisler or Sims because they're as young (or younger) as the other two.
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I haven't given up on Sims. At some point though, they need to cut the cord and give these guys a chance. I "hope" they do that at the trade deadline while finding us a few prospects while they are at it. We have too many pitchers that need to be getting a chance this year. Wisler and Blair need their opportunity to prove themselves before being traded. Sims and Newcomb need the experience badly. Some of these pitchers will be moved in the offseason and it would be nice to see what they do in the bigs. If they keep the three vets after the trade deadline...I give up.
 
TheBravos said:
I'm not saying he will be a TOR pitcher(as some on here are really high on him). I DO like him. If he ends up being TOR guy...the cards are stacked against him. In saying that, I'm going to wait and see what he does. He definitely has less of a chance, but that doesn't mean he has no chance. At worst he has a extremly high floor and has a very high chance to be an effective #3-#5 starter. To me anyway (which doesn't hold much value).
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I think this assessment is spot on.
 
TheBravos said:
I haven't given up on Sims. At some point though, they need to cut the cord and give these guys a chance. I "hope" they do that at the trade deadline while finding us a few prospects while they are at it. We have too many pitchers that need to be getting a chance this year. Wisler and Blair need their opportunity to prove themselves before being traded. Sims and Newcomb need the experience badly. Some of these pitchers will be moved in the offseason and it would be nice to see what they do in the bigs. If they keep the three vets after the trade deadline...I give up.
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Wasn't clear - my bad. I meant that it's tough to sell me that it's time to give up on Sims if you haven't given up on all the others yet. You weren't - you just quoted someone who was.

Again, I'm not saying I don't feel the same frustration they do, but if you've ever made the statement that it's too early to give up on Folty or Newcomb it's certainly too early to give up on the others as well.
 
Guys like Soroka are hard to project. It's absolutely possible to be a TOR pitcher without throwing mid-90s. It's just not as easy and it's much harder to predict.

That being said, I think it is nearly impossible to be an ace without having good stuff. However, just because you don't throw 95 doesn't mean you don't have good stuff. Too often good stuff is synonymous with velocity because that's what's most common. Guys like Maddux and Glavine actually had very good stuff. Maddux's fastball may have come in at 91 but it moved like crazy. Glavine's fastball wasn't elite but his changeup was one of the best in the game. Still, without the ability to blow hitters away you usually need pinpoint precision which both those guys had.

That brings us to guys like Soroka. It's very hard to predict guys like this. Often when you have a guy who had good command he'll do very well in the low minors because he's more advanced than his competition. These stats are often mirages that wont hold up at higher levels. It can be hard to differentiate a guy who is more advanced than his competition and takes advantage of that and someone who has that special control that will allow him to be successful.

This is why watching Soroka at AA and AAA is so important. If his success holds up (and it looks good so far) then that's a big mark in his favor. It will show that his success isn't simply based on being more advanced than others in the low minors. I'm not sure what Soroka will be but I like him and am very encouraged by his results.
 
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