The Uggla Solution

I agree the Dodgers would b ideal but I have no clue of their farm system. I imagine it's pretty bad with all the trades they've made. For Kimbrel you would have to be blown away. And I could see the Yanks comin into play there. Especially if they lose Cano. They'd have a need for both players as well.
 
nsacpi said:
The smarter teams like the Red Sox realize that the arbitration system and market tends to overvalue even very good closers. So they let Papelbon walk. The dumber teams like Philly will go for those players.

If we want to move Kimbrel and Uggla in a package and be well compensated for it, we need a counterparty that is dumb and rich. Like Philly. Except Philly has a lot invested in their closer and second baseman.

There is only one team that is dumb and rich enough to do such a deal and has a need for a closer and second baseman. That would be the Dodgers. What would you want from the Dodgers in exchange for Kimbrel/Uggla?

Actually there might be a second team. The Tigers if they don't bring back Infante. What would you like from the Tigers?
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Seager would need to be in the deal from the Dodgers. Castellanos is really the only valueable player in the Tigers farm and I don't think they want to trade him.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Glad someone doesn't think I'm crazy...

This is the off season to do it. Not a lot of major holes to fill. Just concentrate on getting a Kimbrel deal that sets us up of the long term. Then look at in house extensions and think about 3B and 2B after the Kimbrel deal is done and you know what you got for those guys.

The Mac thing is not going to be a big deal for Wrenn IMO. He'll make his best offer and we'll either have Mac or we'll be going Gattis/Laird/CB. Not going free agent.

Although if they sign Mac then they potentially could put CB or Gattis into a Kimbrel deal if they really wanted to get a monster deal going. Maybe Rangers if they don't get Mac.....(still think they get Mac).
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I've mentioned trading Kimbrel multiple times and gotten bashed for it.

No idea what we could trade him for.

Regards to Uggla, I'm not sure without eating most of the deal they could trade him.
 
I know this thread is about Kimbrel but in reality it all comes back to McCann.

If McCann resigns then you can do a lot of things to fill the void. Gattis is a HUGE trade chip. If Mac doesnt resign then paying someone to take Uggla becomes easier. Putting Uggla and Kimbrel in a package diminishes your return.

Queston is which teams would need Uggla even if Wren eats a chunk of money. Toronto? LA? NYY?
Which teams would have real interest in Kimbrel? Detroit, NYY, Boston? I doubt he would be traded to NL team.
Who would need JUP. Texas maybe?
Tho before I traded JUp I would want to make sure Freeman and/or Heyward would extend.
 
I thought it was about Uggla. To be honest the fancy circuitous stuff involving Kimbrel and others, while fun to bat around, is pretty unlikely to happen.

We were lucky to find someone to eat $5M or whatever it was of Lowe's salary. I don't get the feeling that the front office's patience with Uggla has run out the way it did with Lowe. But that might change with a poor post-season. I'd say the odds right now are better than 50-50 that Uggla will be back next year. But I think there will be an emphasis on giving the in-house alternatives at second more of an opportunity.
 
Btw, I found out that La Stella would be eligible for the playoffs since he was in the organization before Sept 1. That would be another option if Uggla continues to struggle and we don't think Elliot is the answer either.
 
nsacpi said:
I thought it was about Uggla. To be honest the fancy circuitous stuff involving Kimbrel and others, while fun to bat around, is pretty unlikely to happen.

We were lucky to find someone to eat $5M or whatever it was of Lowe's salary. I don't get the feeling that the front office's patience with Uggla has run out the way it did with Lowe. But that might change with a poor post-season. I'd say the odds right now are better than 50-50 that Uggla will be back next year. But I think there will be an emphasis on giving the in-house alternatives at second more of an opportunity.
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Yeah, I meant Uggla but just couldnt keep from typing kimbrel.
 
Lowe was traded becuase he was horrible AND there were better options in the system. Uggla is horrible, but no matter how you spin it, Pastor and Pena are not clear cut upgrades over him. I doubt Wren eats much money to trade him, and I doubt even more he waters down the return on Kimbrel by packaging them together.

I do agree that this is the offseason to sell high on Kimbrel, but only if someone is willing to make a significant offer. Wren can probably afford him next year, so salary constraints don't really come into play until after the 2014 season.

I also have a feeling that if Mac is signed long term we will magically see the NL adopt the DH before his contract expires.
 
nsacpi said:
I thought it was about Uggla. To be honest the fancy circuitous stuff involving Kimbrel and others, while fun to bat around, is pretty unlikely to happen.

We were lucky to find someone to eat $5M or whatever it was of Lowe's salary. I don't get the feeling that the front office's patience with Uggla has run out the way it did with Lowe. But that might change with a poor post-season. I'd say the odds right now are better than 50-50 that Uggla will be back next year. But I think there will be an emphasis on giving the in-house alternatives at second more of an opportunity.
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I agree, the talk about trading Kimbrel isn't realistic at this point. It's not going to happen anytime soon. If we do trade Kimbrel in the future it will be at least a year down the road, if not longer.

As far as Uggla goes, I tend to agree but my personal opinion is that it would be a mistake. In other words, I'd argue that we need to do whatever we can to move Uggla this off-season. We waited too long on Lowe, but thankfully someone still did us the favor of saving us 5 million his last year. If we don't move Uggla this off-season it may prove a bigger mistake.
 
Braves1976 said:
I agree, the talk about trading Kimbrel isn't realistic at this point. It's not going to happen anytime soon. If we do trade Kimbrel in the future it will be at least a year down the road, if not longer.

As far as Uggla goes, I tend to agree but my personal opinion is that it would be a mistake. In other words, I'd argue that we need to do whatever we can to move Uggla this off-season. We waited too long on Lowe, but thankfully someone still did us the favor of saving us 5 million his last year. If we don't move Uggla this off-season it may prove a bigger mistake.
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I think it depends on what assumption we make as to the "relationship" between Fredi and Uggla, and Fredi's ability to ease Dan out of the lineup. We saw late last year he was willing to do this. But there were some injuries and Dan ended up playing everyday again.

If you assume Fredi can put aside his feelings and just do the right thing then we can wait.

If you don't think Fredi can do this then the FO will have to intervene by trading/releasing Uggla. Even under this scenario, however, there is the question of whether the best time to do this is the offseason or middle of the season. I can see arguments for both.
 
Whether they ultimately turn out to be scrubs or not there are some internal options that I think we should turn to first. One of them might turn out to be the answer, which will save us the cost of finding an external solution for second. Could be La Stella, could be Pena, could be Pastornicky.

This is one reason why I would prefer not to trade Uggla in the off-season. I think an off-season trade would lead to acquire an external second base option. We might ultimately have to do this anyway, but I'd prefer giving the three internal options listed above half a season to show what they got.
 
nsacpi said:
I think it depends on what assumption we make as to the "relationship" between Fredi and Uggla, and Fredi's ability to ease Dan out of the lineup. We saw late last year he was willing to do this. But there were some injuries and Dan ended up playing everyday again.

If you assume Fredi can put aside his feelings and just do the right thing then we can wait.

If you don't think Fredi can do this then the FO will have to intervene by trading/releasing Uggla. Even under this scenario, however, there is the question of whether the best time to do this is the offseason or middle of the season. I can see arguments for both.
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Well, it's no secret that Fredi and Uggla have a "father and son" type relationship. If that weren't the case Uggla would've found himself hitting 8th by now, IMO. If in St. Louis when La Russa was still managing he'd probably even seen time hitting 9th (assuming he's in the line-up).
 
jpx7 said:
Personally, I think: LaStella >>> Pastornicky > Peña.
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I'm not so sure about that, but I figure between the three (La Stella, Pastornicky and Pena) we're bound to get more production than from Uggla, esp. once you factor in the defense. I also expect Uggla's defense to continue to decline.

To sum it up, I expect at least two of the three proving a decent platoon at second.
 
Braves1976 said:
I'm not so sure about that, but I figure between the three (La Stella, Pastornicky and Pena) we're bound to get more production than from Uggla, esp. once you factor in the defense. I also expect Uggla's defense to continue to decline.

To sum it up, I expect at least two of the three proving a decent platoon at second.
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I think we need to keep an open mind about those three. Pena's career numbers are poor, but over an extended period (winter ball, spring training, regular season) over the past nine months, he's performed at a higher level. Maybe just a hot streak, but it has been going on long enough to raise the possibility he has improved.

As for La Stella and Pastornicky, they are young enough that they have room for further growth. I hope the front office will keep an open mind and let them compete for playing time before spending resources on an external solution.
 
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