The Trump Presidency

Julio3000 said:
Hmm. The horror that I most often hear you express is the stuff I mentioned.

I don't disagree with you at all about TJ. On the other hand, that has ****all to do with the Confederate flag, so I'm not really sure why you felt the need to take it there.
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So do you agree with removing TJ statues bc fragile little liberals feelings are hurt?
 
Just saw the HRC interview from CNN where she blamed everyone and their mother for her loss except for her.

Truly pathetic.

Personal accountability... a foreign concept to the left.

"ah... the left"
 
mqt said:
I think that's a bit extreme, though I understand the general point of the comparison. In the case of Stalin vs. Hitler it was ultimately a debate between which mass murderer is less evil, whereas I think there's a pretty clear separation between literal enslavement vs. old time racism. I feel like there's a pretty clear moral choice in the Civil War, regardless of the extent to which the North accepted racial equality.
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And let's also remember to not let NE off the hook, since much of the money which fueled their industrialization came from the profits their shippers made in the slave trade. Blood money built their moral soap box. Lot's of bloody hands and guilt...

Our nation's original sin [HT: Joseph Moore]
 
BedellBrave said:
And let's also remember to not let NE off the hook, since much of the money which fueled their industrialization came from the profits their shippers made in the slave trade. Blood money built their moral soap box. Lot's of bloody hands and guilt...

Our nation's original sin [HT: Joseph Moore]
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"Moral soap box"? That's a despicably cynical stance. I doubt the abolitionists were wealthy slave trade profiteers.
 
Runnin said:
"Moral soap box"? That's a despicably cynical stance. I doubt the abolitionists were wealthy slave trade profiteers.
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Hey wait a minute,

I"m the one who's despicably cynical around here. Back then, those who were the poster boys and girls for abolitionism (like William Lloyd Garrison, Wendell Phillips, Reverend Elijah P. Lovejoy, Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglas, even that dipstick John Brown) wouldn't fit Bedell's description but just like today, those who benefit the most economically aren't the ones you see and associate with that moral stance anyway. Those names I just mentioned, whether you agree with them or hate them were idealists who were fighting for what they believed in.

The wealthy industrialists, bankers, shipping magnates, etc., (those are the ones Bedell was referring to I believe) had no problem making millions from either the South's terrible practice of slavery or their own version, ie using the millions of immigrants coming to this country every year, paying them pennies and making them and their families live in the filthy tenement "projects" where their children died from playing in the filthy streets that were full of diseases. Those were the men making millions from both forms of forced servitude. They didn't want the South to secede because they had their sweetheart system set up so they'd win either way. They paid lip service (when they had to) to the abolitionist viewpoint to make them think they were on their side, then they'd go back to their mansions and count their money, ala Scrooge McDuck or Mr. Burns while the abolitionists marched for change.
 
Krgrecw said:
Will you prevent conservative speakers from speaking at schools than turn around and say trump is against free speech?
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You're comparing apples and oranges. Students protesting against a speaker is not even similar to someone in government attempting to squash someone from saying something. 1st amendment does not supercede other people's 1st amendment rights.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Hey wait a minute,

I"m the one who's despicably cynical around here. Back then, those who were the poster boys and girls for abolitionism (like William Lloyd Garrison, Wendell Phillips, Reverend Elijah P. Lovejoy, Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglas, even that dipstick John Brown) wouldn't fit Bedell's description but just like today, those who benefit the most economically aren't the ones you see and associate with that moral stance anyway. Those names I just mentioned, whether you agree with them or hate them were idealists who were fighting for what they believed in.

The wealthy industrialists, bankers, shipping magnates, etc., (those are the ones Bedell was referring to I believe) had no problem making millions from either the South's terrible practice of slavery or their own version, ie using the millions of immigrants coming to this country every year, paying them pennies and making them and their families live in the filthy tenement "projects" where their children died from playing in the filthy streets that were full of diseases. Those were the men making millions from both forms of forced servitude. They didn't want the South to secede because they had their sweetheart system set up so they'd win either way. They paid lip service (when they had to) to the abolitionist viewpoint to make them think they were on their side, then they'd go back to their mansions and count their money, ala Scrooge McDuck or Mr. Burns while the abolitionists marched for change.
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Thanks OHawk - that's exactly what I'm talking about. Thankful for you friend. You read me with charity and in context.
 
Watching the snippet with Face the Nation's Dickerson on if Trump stands by his surveillance claims was cringeworthy. :HeywardWut:
 
sturg33 said:
Just saw the HRC interview from CNN where she blamed everyone and their mother for her loss except for her.

Truly pathetic.

Personal accountability... a foreign concept to the left.

"ah... the left"
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Justin Amash‏Verified account @justinamash

My office is seeking a bright, creative, and self-motivated legislative assistant to join our DC-based policy team.

https://www.facebook.com/justinamash/posts/14067

how is your new job ?
 
sturg33 said:
Just saw the HRC interview from CNN where she blamed everyone and their mother for her loss except for her.

Truly pathetic.

Personal accountability... a foreign concept to the left.

"ah... the left"
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Matthew Yglesias‏


Did Mitt Romney fully accept responsibility for his loss?

didn't think so.
Why then must HRC ?

Was Romney ever expected to ?
McCain ? Kerry ? Gore ? Dole ? Bush41 ?
Dukakis? Carter ? Ford ? McGovern ?
Goldwater?
Bush 41, Carter and Ford were sitting Presidents --

Do I sense a pattern here ?

In context, HRC won the popular vote very close if not within the margin of error.
You were asking about rights ...

It really is more the stigma than rights.
Rights can be dealt with legislatively.
Stigma is a horse of a other color
 
Josh Litten‏ @HistoryJosh 9m9 minutes ago
Replying to @mattyglesias

I don't think people have given Samuel Tilden as much **** as he deserves for not campaigning more in Pennsylvania in 1876.
 
BedellBrave said:
And let's also remember to not let NE off the hook, since much of the money which fueled their industrialization came from the profits their shippers made in the slave trade. Blood money built their moral soap box. Lot's of bloody hands and guilt...

Our nation's original sin [HT: Joseph Moore]
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Eh, that's kind of a ****ty whitewashing thing to do. While there certainly were people in the north making money off slavery, African slave trade was banned in 1807 and imports of slaves were much less common and breeding was the much more common method of acquiring new slaves. So in the life of the USA as we know it, about 20 years or so there was potential for what you were saying being a legit thriving industry, and then about 55 after that weren't. So it's not really that viable of a comp and it's a classic deflection tactic. "Hey Johnny punched Judy so it's OK that I murdered Marlene."
 
mqt said:
I don't care one way or another, but what are the reasons for not removing TJ statues?
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I can think of at least 3/5 of a reason to do it, but it's not something that I'm really exercised about. What that has to do with the Confederate flag, though, is something sturg is going to have to explain to me.
 
Bakari Sellers‏Verified account @Bakari_Sellers 4h4 hours ago

The President of the United States is under Federal investigation.
 
mqt said:
I don't care one way or another, but what are the reasons for not removing TJ statues?
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Julio3000 said:
I can think of at least 3/5 of a reason to do it, but it's not something that I'm really exercised about. What that has to do with the Confederate flag, though, is something sturg is going to have to explain to me.
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The two aren't related... Just pointing to an example of a slippery slope when we constantly bend to public pressure
 
sturg33 said:
Lol... Ive seen it all

Our country may not be here if not for him, for starters

Send me your address so I can order you some playdough
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You can save the play dough, as the sight of Thomas Jefferson does not manage to trigger me. My question is not whether or not we should remove such statues, but why it matters if we do. If enough people are offended by it, then why not? Who is out there that will be affected by there not being a statue of TJ?
 
The people who are offended are professional victims. It doesn't end with statues of TH. Eventually they will get to things that affect you.
 
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