Wisler Back To AAA

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At least we waited just long enough for him to get shelled and maybe hurt his confidence.
 
Well at least he no longer carries the distinction of worst pitcher in the league. I am sure someone is worse than he is at the AAA level.
 
It probably shouldn't bother me too much because Wisler/Blair were already looking pretty bustish; but it really does kind of piss me off how they are handling those two.

Just leave them in AAA as starters and let them develop, yanking them up to the MLB bullpen and yo-yoing them around is a bad move.

Wisler had three starts in AAA and was looking like he might actually be righting the ship; last two starts prior to coming up - 13 IP, 3 ER, 10 SO, 2 BB.... that's pretty encouraging - so what does Atlanta do? Bring him up to pitch a couple random innings.... and now he's gotten shelled and they are sending him back down.

I didn't like how they handled Gant, and don't like how they are handling Blair/Wisler.
 
and I do understand that many starting pitchers get some innings in the bullpen, but when you are trying to rebuild confidence and get some consistency like Blair and Wisler are doing; I think you should let them do that at AAA --- especially in a season where we likely aren't competing anyway. Different scenario if this was a really good team that just needed one extra arm in the bullpen. We aren't that, so why turnstile guys like Blair and Wisler (former top-100) prospects that may still have a chance at figuring things out as starters.

Sigh. Rant over.
 
and I do understand that many starting pitchers get some innings in the bullpen, but when you are trying to rebuild confidence and get some consistency like Blair and Wisler are doing; I think you should let them do that at AAA --- especially in a season where we likely aren't competing anyway. Different scenario if this was a really good team that just needed one extra arm in the bullpen. We aren't that, so why turnstile guys like Blair and Wisler (former top-100) prospects that may still have a chance at figuring things out as starters.

Sigh. Rant over.
 
Preacher said:
and I do understand that many starting pitchers get some innings in the bullpen, but when you are trying to rebuild confidence and get some consistency like Blair and Wisler are doing; I think you should let them do that at AAA --- especially in a season where we likely aren't competing anyway. Different scenario if this was a really good team that just needed one extra arm in the bullpen. We aren't that, so why turnstile guys like Blair and Wisler (former top-100) prospects that may still have a chance at figuring things out as starters.

Sigh. Rant over.
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Serious question - if Wisler is "righting the ship" in AAA but can't get MLB hitters out for one and two inning stretches (whether at the beginning of a game or in the 6th and 7th inning) what difference does it make?

Wisler, Blair, and Gant's "stuff" didn't suddenly disappear because they spent a few innings pitching out of the pen. If you're a AAAA starter but have a chance at cashing MLB paychecks rather than the ones you get at Gwinnett I've got this sneaking suspicion which you'd prefer. It's a results-based business, and nothing other than a couple of nice starts from ANY of those three have indicated that they'll be successful major league starters. They've been given a taste, and none have shown the ability to make the necessary adjustments to succeed.

Wisler, Blair, and Gant are all "break the glass" options in an emergency - none of them have a go to pitch that will make them consistently successful at the major league level, so why not try them in shorter stints to see if they might make an adjustment and be able to help your club out of the pen? They're all the type who get passed by other (better) options eventually. If they show they might be useful as a long guy, you don't have to release them. Stretching them out and showing the rest of the world that they can be pretty good in AAA isn't going to increase their trade value.
 
Wisler's fastball is plenty good, 93-94, and he's hit his spots in the past. He's got to develop something that gets them off his fastball, probably the change, and then have the guts to throw it in fastball counts. Not a curveball/slider, he's got an excellent slider. But a straight change, or maybe a splitter.

Lil Guv is at the age now where he needs something else, but he has never gotten the deception of the change, at least not consistently. He was screwing around with a splitter in a bullpen and threw five in a row that sunk like a stone 20 feet from the plate. He's using that as a change of sorts, and it's working. Makes his very-good-but-not-Scherzerian fastball look explosive.

Then Wisler can throw the fastball with a little more confidence, and I think the whole thing would come together for him. I still like him. It's hard to spin a ball the way he does that slider. That's a pitch you build around. And I think his fastball's good, too.

The guy needs a change or a change substitute. You might as well send him down and let him work with your best pitching coach, whether that's in Florida, Gwinnett or Rome. He's useless until he figures this out. But if he does, he can still be really good.
 
clvclv said:
Serious question - if Wisler is "righting the ship" in AAA but can't get MLB hitters out for one and two inning stretches (whether at the beginning of a game or in the 6th and 7th inning) what difference does it make?

Wisler, Blair, and Gant's "stuff" didn't suddenly disappear because they spent a few innings pitching out of the pen. If you're a AAAA starter but have a chance at cashing MLB paychecks rather than the ones you get at Gwinnett I've got this sneaking suspicion which you'd prefer. It's a results-based business, and nothing other than a couple of nice starts from ANY of those three have indicated that they'll be successful major league starters. They've been given a taste, and none have shown the ability to make the necessary adjustments to succeed.

Wisler, Blair, and Gant are all "break the glass" options in an emergency - none of them have a go to pitch that will make them consistently successful at the major league level, so why not try them in shorter stints to see if they might make an adjustment and be able to help your club out of the pen? They're all the type who get passed by other (better) options eventually. If they show they might be useful as a long guy, you don't have to release them. Stretching them out and showing the rest of the world that they can be pretty good in AAA isn't going to increase their trade value.
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See my post right after yours. That's not exactly accurate with Wisler. What's his ERA+ with the slider? Shockingly low. In fact, it IS a pitch you build around.

I'm not ready to give up on Wisler, but he needs intensive third pitch therapy, maybe on a backlot in Florida.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
See my post right after yours. That's not exactly accurate with Wisler. What's his ERA+ with the slider? Shockingly low. In fact, it IS a pitch you build around.

I'm not ready to give up on Wisler, but he needs intensive third pitch therapy, maybe on a backlot in Florida.
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If it's that good, he wouldn't keep getting crushed at this level.

The point still remains, he's getting a little too old to worry so much about his confidence. He's dangerously close to getting passed by Sims, Newcomb, and others before next spring. Since that's the case and then the floodgates are liable to open late next year (Allard, Gohara, Fried, Weigel, Soroka) it's time for him to show he can be useful in another role.

His flaws have been exposed for him for some time now, and he's been told what he needs to do to tighten things up. Successful MLB players make adjustments - Aaron Judge got his taste and swung at every slider he saw last year and struck out at a 50% clip. He made the necessary adjustment. Neither Wisler nor Blair have shown they can make the adjustments they need to.
 
clvclv said:
If it's that good, he wouldn't keep getting crushed at this level.

The point still remains, he's getting a little too old to worry so much about his confidence. He's dangerously close to getting passed by Sims, Newcomb, and others before next spring. Since that's the case and then the floodgates are liable to open late next year (Allard, Gohara, Fried, Weigel, Soroka) it's time for him to show he can be useful in another role.

His flaws have been exposed for him for some time now, and he's been told what he needs to do to tighten things up. Successful MLB players make adjustments - Aaron Judge got his taste and swung at every slider he saw last year and struck out at a 50% clip. He made the necessary adjustment. Neither Wisler nor Blair have shown they can make the adjustments they need to.
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Look it up. I gotta go to work or I'd do it. Judge was not going to be successful and then one day he figured it out. And he's a little older than the Yanks would have liked, but whenever he figured it out was a good answer.

If Wisler gets a third pitch at 27 he'll be successful for eight years. If he never gets it he'll need a new line of work. I agree that ML hitters are making it crystal clear that he ain't fooling 'em. I have a pretty strong opinion where to go from here. Whether Gohara and Wentz develop sooner is completely irrelevant.
 
clvclv said:
Serious question - if Wisler is "righting the ship" in AAA but can't get MLB hitters out for one and two inning stretches (whether at the beginning of a game or in the 6th and 7th inning) what difference does it make?

Wisler, Blair, and Gant's "stuff" didn't suddenly disappear because they spent a few innings pitching out of the pen. If you're a AAAA starter but have a chance at cashing MLB paychecks rather than the ones you get at Gwinnett I've got this sneaking suspicion which you'd prefer. It's a results-based business, and nothing other than a couple of nice starts from ANY of those three have indicated that they'll be successful major league starters. They've been given a taste, and none have shown the ability to make the necessary adjustments to succeed.

Wisler, Blair, and Gant are all "break the glass" options in an emergency - none of them have a go to pitch that will make them consistently successful at the major league level, so why not try them in shorter stints to see if they might make an adjustment and be able to help your club out of the pen? They're all the type who get passed by other (better) options eventually. If they show they might be useful as a long guy, you don't have to release them. Stretching them out and showing the rest of the world that they can be pretty good in AAA isn't going to increase their trade value.
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Players aren't going to throw the same at AAA as a starter and in the majors as a reliever. Wisler had just put two really good starts together, and but at that level he's still able to work on his pitches without having to worry about getting crushed. His primary focus can be development, whereas coming out of the pen he needs to just get results.

Neither of these guys are so old that you give up on them and both have pedigree and past success that should buy them more time. Everything we do this year should be focused on developing our assets, either as players or trade pieces. Why not call up Hursh to fill that 6th inning role? Collementer can be the long-guy for awhile.
 
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