I would have preferred to see them stock up on position talent, and then use that talent to acquire pitchers after other organizations already weeded out the busts.
Braves Acquire Matt Adams From Cardinals
- Thread starter CrimsonCowboy
- Start date
I would have preferred to see them stock up on position talent, and then use that talent to acquire pitchers after other organizations already weeded out the busts.
Good stuff, thanks for listing it all out. We can't talk about how many hit since we're only talking about the shape of the minor league system.
I'll concede that the period from 92-95 was at least as good, likely better, in position prospects than what we have now, at least at the top end. But far superior? I still don't see it.
We just graduated Dansby, so if you look at it to start this year, we had Dansby, Albies, Acuna, and Maitan at the top. The 93 and 95 groups you posted are likely the only two that surpassed that group, and it's not by much.
So while it's true that we focused more on position prospects than everyone thinks back then, it's also true that we're focusing on position prospects more now than everyone thinks, which is my point. If you're saying it's stupid to say the old 'Braves Way' is about developing pitching, then it's also stupid to say that our current strategy is about developing pitching above all.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Not clearly superior, but clearly closer and safer I think
That's fair. But either way, the point stands - we are focusing on position prospects and trying to stockpile those as well, pretty much as much as we ever have. It's just that we also have a crap ton of pitching prospects in addition to that. For some reason people are focusing more on the ratio than on the raw numbers.
It is better to have 10 pitching prospects and 5 hitting prospects than to have 3 pitching prospects and 5 hitting prospects. Is it better to have 3 pitching prospects and 12 hitting prospects? Sure, I'll agree with that. But my argument is that you can't substitute them 1-for-1, exactly for the reasons stated about the lower value of pitching prospects.
The Braves FO is targeting pitchers. They have even said this themselves. Acuna and Albies are top prospects but not acquired under this current FO. You can thank team Frank Wren for them.
This Braves FO were gifted Ender and Swanson and also signed Matian. The rest of the trades and draft have been pitching heavy. Is that not correct?
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
that was media driven due to Leo mainly and Bobby secondarily. Bobby still being involved gives the impression that the Braves still want to develop pitchers. The org doesn't develop pitchers just like any other org develops them. Sets of individual coaches and instructors along with the players talent and work ethic will determine how far they go. Those criteria have been in flux for a long time. Once when Bobby rides his horse into the sunset, we will hopefully end this saying 'the Braves way.'
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
they were not gifted Swanson and Ender. They specifically targeted them... used a pitcher Zona wanted and cleaned house... regardless of how much you want to discredit the FO abilities, saying they were gifted is completely wrong.
The Braves may not have done a stellar job developing pitchers during the run, but they certainly did a great job hyping them and spinning them off when their values were at a precipice. Odalis Perez/Jason Marquis/Bruce Chen/Tim Spooneybarger/Horacio Ramirez/Damian Moss (among others) all brought back significant pieces.
Is it? The Braves deserve credit for making that move but it's not a normal course of business move. Props to them for continuing to screw over that inept FO but it was a gift.
It really was a wonderful time when the bust rate of pitching prospects wasn't really well known. Sadly the Braves are the team now buying into that failed strategy they helped hype up two decades ago.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
What does normal course of business have to do with this trade... Are you suggesting they wanted only pitchers, but Zona insisted the take Ender and Swanson and not just Blair..
This is fair. It's also still a somewhat small window to make a final judgement. Obviously we heavily targeted position players on the international market. We'll see what we do at 5. If we go with a hitter, then suddenly the two most recent examples of strategy we have will be heavily weighted toward position prospects. Then what do we do?
I'm saying the package they got for Miller was absurd. It warranted one of Ender and Swanson but not both.
Hopefully keep going after hitters. They have a higher chance to be successful and better chance to use them to fill gaps at the MLB level when needed.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I completely agree.. but they still asked and somehow got them. the FO was able to convince the Dbacks that he was worth both..
Stewart is an idiot and was in the process of making a series of stupid "win now" moves. Coppy just so happened to be the guy selling a good pitcher when Stewart was ready to make a bad move. Coppy was in the right place at the right time. The only creidt he deserves is that he was smart enough to realize it was happening and facilitated the gifting.
That single move is the sole reason the Braves even resemble a team that is ending a rebuild.
That single move is the sole reason the Braves even resemble a team that is ending a rebuild.
I agree. I'm not saying they have never targeted position players. But it's been rare and they got 2 of them in one trade due to a horrible GM.
I didn't mean what approach do we take, I just meant how do we continue to bash them for their approach if they start targeting position players?
Well if they draft that 1B prospect at #5 to save money to sign an injured pitching prospect at #41...I think the bashing will justifiably continue.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I would probably start looking for my pitch fork at that point.... maybe..