Is the rebuild in trouble?

thethe said:
Alex Wood is on the DL right now.

I think everyone thought he was a good pitcher but will he be able to stay healthy.
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The Oliver's deal is indefensible. Almost everyone said it from day one.

I'm ok with dealing every player we did. I think most of us were. Not for Oliver's at 30.

If they had traded for a maitan and an allard we'd get it. Even if those guys flame out. 30 yo who hasn't played in years bc of injuries.....dumb
 
There is no plausible defense for the Olivera deal except that all of major league baseball failed in their due diligence in assessing his skills and demeanor. They play the game on the field and not in the batting cage, so for me the moral of the story is stay away from Cuban defectors that you have not personally scouted extensively.
 
Russ2dollas said:
The Oliver's deal is indefensible. Almost everyone said it from day one.

I'm ok with dealing every player we did. I think most of us were. Not for Oliver's at 30.

If they had traded for a maitan and an allard we'd get it. Even if those guys flame out. 30 yo who hasn't played ...

^^^
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Russ2dollas said:
The Oliver's deal is indefensible. Almost everyone said it from day one.

I'm ok with dealing every player we did. I think most of us were. Not for Oliver's at 30.

If they had traded for a maitan and an allard we'd get it. Even if those guys flame out. 30 yo who hasn't played in years bc of injuries.....dumb
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It turned out to be a disaster thats for sure. Information at the time was much more split. Sure, there were many who thought it was a bad decision from the get go. Good for them - They nailed it. But there were still many around baseball who were positive about Oliveras future.
 
I think most people on here thought it was a disaster to marginally ok. We all had "hopes" HO would be as advertised. I remember when I saw the trade...I read it three times. I kept thinking "There has to be something I'm missing"....there wasn't .
 
Southcack77 said:
That's not very likely at all.
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It's not? They simply could have not signed Nick and kept BJ around. You get the money to do all the things you said they did with it plus get more value out of Kimbrel. But they didn't do that. They wanted to try and contend in 2017. They thought Nick could be apart of that and shedding BJ's salary would help. It was a mistake to try and go down that road and they abandoned that plan at the end of the year.
 
thethe said:
It turned out to be a disaster thats for sure. Information at the time was much more split. Sure, there were many who thought it was a bad decision from the get go. Good for them - They nailed it. But there were still many around baseball who were positive about Oliveras future.
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Even if HO was as advertised it was still a mistake. Wood and Peraza should of been traded for someone not 30 years old. The whole idea of trying to compete in 2017 was a mistake.
 
It's funny ... we learned who the Braves would be giving up well before it was apparent who was coming back. If you go back and re-read the Olivera trade thread - which is a masterwork - most thought that Seager (at least) was the return haul.

Man, were we sure wrong ... but those ~30 minutes of bliss were great.
 
thethe said:
It turned out to be a disaster thats for sure. Information at the time was much more split. Sure, there were many who thought it was a bad decision from the get go. Good for them - They nailed it. But there were still many around baseball who were positive about Oliveras future.
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No one ever thought the deal was a good one... even when it took place.
 
thewupk said:
Even if HO was as advertised it was still a mistake. Wood and Peraza should of been traded for someone not 30 years old. The whole idea of trying to compete in 2017 was a mistake.
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I think this is one of the key things to keep in mind. The HO trade (as designed) would have moved wins forward into 2016 and 2017 at the expense of years further out. In the end, it didn't work as designed and ended up being a disaster. But the as designed premise of the trade was itself questionable.
 
sturg33 said:
The saddest thing is that the Braves missed on almost all their big trades.

Fried, Folty, Olivera, Wisler, Newcomb all appear to be misses... The only big trade that has been a slam dunk was Heyward, and that's only bc Dave Stewart is an idiot.

I never supported the tear down, but at least would have liked to seen some big time players acquired from our blue chippers.

Ultimately, the strength of our system is Albies (wren), acuna (wren), matian (intl sign), Anderson (draft), Allard (draft), soroka (draft)

Coppy just didn't do a great job in trades of our best assets
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It is way, WAYYYY too soon to render a decision on Fried, Folty, or Newcomb. Btu whatever supports your narrative, right? That's the world we live in now...
 
One thing that should be done is that any dings that Coppy gets for trying to win in 2017, he can get praise for still building a very good system that will feed the MLB team from the future on. He at least kept the future in check and didn't go bat **** crazy on trying to compete this year.
 
chopdrew said:
It is way, WAYYYY too soon to render a decision on Fried, Folty, or Newcomb. Btu whatever supports your narrative, right? That's the world we live in now...
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Sure it's early... but knowing what we know now, i'm not sure i make those trades again. I probably make the Gattis trade, but i wouldn't have made the Upton, Simmons, Kimbrel, Wood trades.

I think we'd be in a lot better shape if we held onto to our long term assets, and we'd be a better team.

Of course, I could be wrong
 
thewupk said:
Even if HO was as advertised it was still a mistake. Wood and Peraza should of been traded for someone not 30 years old. The whole idea of trying to compete in 2017 was a mistake.
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This.

But posi-Braves will never admit to it.

That core mistake is responsible for every bad and inefficient move the FO has made during this rebuild. Every single analyst who was unaffiliated with the Braves stated as much at the beginning of the rebuild. They all continued to throw out little jabs about it every time the Braves made some sort of "win now" move.

The Braves FO was the only group who couldn't see that fact, and unfortunately for us and the Braves organization, they were the only ones with control over the situation.

Now we hope that a "half in" rebuild will deliver results by 2019. So much value was wasted that could have been funneled to 2019...what a shame.
 
nsacpi said:
I think this is one of the key things to keep in mind. The HO trade (as designed) would have moved wins forward into 2016 and 2017 at the expense of years further out. In the end, it didn't work as designed and ended up being a disaster. But the as designed premise of the trade was itself questionable.
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And this is why we must judge the process, not the results. Even if HO had been the .800 OPS guy at 3B they thought he was the last couple years, it still would have been a bad deal because the Braves still would have been a bad team.

It was a "win now" move made by a team that wasn't ready to win.

Bad process. That's why it was a bad trade. The results, and then further compounding the mistake with another "win now" move by acquiring Kemp, just added to how bad it ultimately ended up being.
 
sturg33 said:
Sure it's early... but knowing what we know now, i'm not sure i make those trades again. I probably make the Gattis trade, but i wouldn't have made the Upton, Simmons, Kimbrel, Wood trades.

I think we'd be in a lot better shape if we held onto to our long term assets, and we'd be a better team.

Of course, I could be wrong
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You can't judge trades after 1-2 years of hindsight. Trades must be evaluated based on the information available at the time of the trade.

The problem with the Simmons, Kimbrel and Wood trades were that they watered down the future value of the returns by getting present (or very near future present) value as part of the package. For a rebuilding team, that is a bad process. Bad process means bad trade, regardless of how the prospects i nthe deals ultimately turned out.
 
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