Quintana to Cubs

Good for both parties. The Cubs are in the place to make a move like this. The Braves are not. The Sox get some good pieces and a stud potential in Eloy. Cubs gave up a lot.

I am happy the Braves did not beat that offer.

Likely means the price is going to be up on other guys. I hope that means someone overpays us for Tehran b/c they don't want to pay the Sonny Gray price.
 
This will set the market. Whether decide to buy into Gray or Archer (doubtful) or move some of our guys, BP arms included, the asking price is obviously really high.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
This will set the market. Whether decide to buy into Gray or Archer (doubtful) or move some of our guys, BP arms included, the asking price is obviously really high.
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True. But Q has more control and less injury history IIRC.

Again, I wonder if the high price helps us with Tehran b/c he's not going to command that price. The Twins want a controllable starter but probably can't pay these prices....would they be an option b/c they are small market and love the JT deal? I just don't know if the Twins have the system.
 
Enscheff said:
Hahn is rebuilding correctly.
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He's selling off studs he inherited but they still can't win with....I'm not sure why we should give him too much credit.

If Coppy inherited Heyward with 3 years of control it's a different deal. If JT was anything close to Sale...
 
Russ2dollas said:
He's selling off studs he inherited but they still can't win with....I'm not sure why we should give him too much credit.

If Coppy inherited Heyward with 3 years of control it's a different deal. If JT was anything close to Sale...
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Those three assets far exceeded anything the braves had.
 
sturg33 said:
Uhh, Simmons, Kimbrel, Wood, Gattis all had lots of control left
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you want to pretend those are on the same planet?

I'm on record I didn't like the Simmons, Kimbrel or Olivera deals.

Simmons was a stud but wasn't hitting. I think they knew they had Swanson in the bag for Miller. Per Bowman they were worried his d was going to decline a lot with age. He's still an all glove SS.
Kimbrel is a stud but he's still a relief pitcher.
Wood they thought was going to break. So far they look dumb.
Gattis was not a national league player and I think they did great on that deal.

None of those guys comes close to getting a TOR with a ton of control. IF you are a pure WAR guy then you can make the argument with Simmons but all glove SS and TOR starters are never going in the same value area.
 
sturg33 said:
The 5 guys the Braves traded are on a 24 WAR pace this year.

Not even including Heyward - who we got great value out of
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Sum of the parts will not get the same value as the whole.

Meaning...trading a 7 WAR player will yiield more than trading 2 2 WAR player and a 3WAR player. People will pay a premium for studs as you only have 25 spots on a roster.

Also, the WAR of the players now is not the right metric to use.
 
nsacpi said:
I think the right way to compare is to add up the expected surplus value of the players traded away...that would be a good starting point
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Sale is Sale. You can't do math on it.

There are a finite number of 5+ WAR starting pitchers. Much less one that has done it in the AL. Then add the contract.

I know some will say WAR is WAR but you aren't getting Sale for Inciarte's War and Simmons' WAR. Dominant starters on cheap deals are the unicorns.
 
thethe said:
Sum of the parts will not get the same value as the whole.

Meaning...trading a 7 WAR player will yiield more than trading 2 2 WAR player and a 3WAR player. People will pay a premium for studs as you only have 25 spots on a roster.

Also, the WAR of the players now is not the right metric to use.
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I agree.

But the Braves sum of parts was more valuable that Sale & Q
 
sturg33 said:
I agree.

But the Braves sum of parts was more valuable that Sale & Q
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I think sale was more valuable than anything we traded cumlatively. Nobody in their right mind was expected the top prospect in baseball for anything we traded.
 
Russ2dollas said:
He's selling off studs he inherited but they still can't win with....I'm not sure why we should give him too much credit.

If Coppy inherited Heyward with 3 years of control it's a different deal. If JT was anything close to Sale...
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Coppy had plenty of studs to sell off. Problem is he watered down the returns by trying to unload money or get present value in the packages. He also foolishly decided to waste the majority of his biggest stud pitcher's value.

It doesn't matter what assets he had to sell. All that matters is he didn't sell them anywhere close to the most efficient way possible. The Sox are, and should be commended.

It's ok to criticize the Braves FO. You're still a fan of you don't agree with everything they have done.
 
sturg33 said:
I agree.

But the Braves sum of parts was more valuable that Sale & Q
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I don't think you're getting Sale for Simmons, Kimbrel, Wood and Gattis. If we would not have added BJ and been really tough on our deals then maybe the sum of those parts could add up to something close. No way a Monconda talent goes with any of those guys. Same thing with Eloy in my opinion. Kimbrel would be closest with Margot but I don't think he's in that category with Eloy and Moncada.
 
thethe said:
I think sale was more valuable than anything we traded cumlatively. Nobody in their right mind was expected the top prospect in baseball for anything we traded.
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Individually, yes.

But the Braves have gotten less from their 6 very valuable players than the White Sox got with their 2. That's unacceptable.

We saw what a closer like Kimbrel can bring back in a trade, and we saw what we got back - as just one example
 
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