Rand Paul

57Brave said:
No I probably don't understand property rights

or state rights

or ------

I understand property rights perfectly well. They extend to breaking a law on said property. By discriminating a person at a restaurant you are as liable to legal scrutiny as you would be if you are caught with a girl chained in the back yard,half a marijuanna farm in your restaurant kitchen area or discriminate seating / serving someone at your restaurant.

Law trumps property rights. The law is set by our elected representatives (government) . Our elected representatives voted overwhelmingly that discrimination over color is unacceptable. Under any circumstance

It is the law -- not quite sure what there is you can't understand or even worsegrasp why it is a law
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So you support any law - even if it is a bad law?
 
sturg33 said:
So you support any law - even if it is a bad law?
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I don't support stopping traffic lights just because they turn red. Why should a red light tell me what to do or direct my free will?

but, living in a society we have rules / norms we agree to through the process of representative government-- whether we like them (support?) or not.
One of those norms is we do not tolerate discrimination based on the color of peoples skin --

nor do we enslave people because a state passes a law.
 
sturg33 said:
Whatever the reason - whether it is biological, cultural, or pure randomness, it has driven me to assume that, knowing nothing else - a black person would be better at bball than a white person.
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It's the "making assumptions without any other data" part that is problematic, not the statement of empirical observations. For instance: stating that most skill-position players in the NFL are African-American is one thing; assuming that a random black dude in a gym is a super athlete is another, and much more problematic, thing. Or: stating that, on average, Asian-Americans tends to score better on standardized mathematical tests is one thing; assuming a random Asian-American child is a math-genius is another, and racially-stereotyping, thing.

You can be honest about your feelings in this country; but, if you honestly believe making these blanket assumptions, along racial lines, about random people for whom you lack any other relevant or pertinent data outside of visible racial markings, then I'm also free to shun and shame you.
 
jpx7 said:
It's the "making assumptions without any other data" part that is problematic, not the statement of empirical observations. For instance: stating that most skill-position players in the NFL are African-American is one thing; assuming that a random black dude in a gym is a super athlete is another, and much more problematic, thing. Another: stating that, on average, Asian-Americans tends to score better on standardized mathematical tests is one thing; assuming a random Asian-American child is a math-genius is another, and racially-stereotyping, thing.

You can be honest about your feelings in this country; but, if you honestly believe making these blanket assumptions, along racial lines, about random people for whom you lack any other relevant or pertinent data outside of visible racial markings, then I'm also free to shun and shame you.
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But if you have nothing else to compare, and all else is equal (same height, age, etc), then why wouldn't you use the general knowledge you have that, historically, a black person is more likely to be good than a white person?
 
sturg33 said:
But if you have nothing else to compare, and all else is equal (same height, age, etc), then why wouldn't you use the general knowledge you have that, historically, a black person is more likely to be good than a white person?
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But why do you so desperately need to be making assumptions like these? Why can't you forestall judgement until you've acquired some sort of additional, specific, actually-relevant information about an individual? What circumstances or contingent factors are forcing such assumptive processes upon you?

And give me something better than the trivial example of selecting teammates for a pick-up basketball game.
 
jpx7 said:
Why do you so desperately need to be making assumptions like these? Why can't you condition yourself to forestall judgement until you've acquired some sort of additional, specific, actually-relevant information about an individual? What circumstances or contingent factors are forcing such assumptive processes upon you?

And give me something better than the trivial example of selecting teammates for a pick-up basketball game.
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LOL. There is no desperate need for anything. It's literally just a real world example that happens to me basically everytime I play basketball.

How am I supposed to wait for more evidence? We gotta start the game!

But many a time, we play that first game - and I regret the decision. Oh well.

If using a stereotypical bias that favors a black person makes me racist against black people... well, I just don't know how to respond to that
 
Tapate50 said:
I can't help but raise an eyebrow when someone that lauds Obama on his accomplishments, but deflects Rand because he "lacks a Senate record". POT there is someone I'd love for you to meet...

Sturg, that was pretty well put considering the post it was answering. Nicely done.
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Hey, at what point in that post did I "laud Obama on his accomplishments?"
 
sturg33 said:
Yes.
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I've got a couple of questions, which I'm curious to see how you—or anyone else who's inclined to . . . aces, Tapate, Bedell?—answer. This is not any kind of rhetorical question, or gotcha-game. I'm just curious.

Was the Civil Rights Act unconstitutional?

Was the harm to private property rights suffered by business owners greater or lesser than the harm suffered by citizens who were discriminated against on the basis of race? Did the simple existence of legal racial discrimination affect the rights of non-whites to enjoy liberty and pursue happiness? What was the actual harm suffered by business owners under Title II of the act?
 
sturg33 said:
The Rosa Parks things was once again his constitutional interpretation of what the federal government is authorized to do. In his mind, the government should not have been allowed to use tax payer money to make up an award out of thin air. I commend him for sticking to his principles rather than doing the ABSOLUTELY politically correct and popular move.
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So you are telling me that Ron Paul doesn't believe Congress has the power to honor people? I look forward to the next bill he introduces: "Shut down Arlington National Cemetery and throw out all those bodies."
 
sturg33 said:
Stereotypes aren't racist.
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sturg33 said:
LOL. There is no desperate need for anything. It's literally just a real world example that happens to me basically everytime I play basketball.

How am I supposed to wait for more evidence? We gotta start the game!

But many a time, we play that first game - and I regret the decision. Oh well.

If using a stereotypical bias that favors a black person makes me racist against black people... well, I just don't know how to respond to that
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Even in your incredibly mundane example, the aftershock of your "helpful" racism is evident. The average joe black guy ends up on worse team, since the other team gets a better player at the same time. Additionally, the average joe black is saddled with subtle resentment ("I regret the decision") that he has no control over.

Now imagine if this was something that actually mattered.
 
I don't like the Paul's, but I imagine there's not to many people in Washington who would accept money from Stormfront and not return it and admit fault after the media finds out you accepted the funds except for the Paul's. Stormfront has no doubt that Paul was behind his 'racist letters' from years back.

Are they racist? I don't think they are racist as much as they just don't care for Blacks or Jews. there's a difference. I could never bang or date a 300lb chick. Does that mean I hate them? Nope. People like who they like. different strokes for different strokes. freedom of choice.
 
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