AcuñaMania

sturg33 said:
I'd bet he could have turned Heyward into more than Miller.

I don't think anyone does better for Miller.. but yet again, we owe Dave Stewart a drink for that one.
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Ummm.... what?

Miller, at the time, was young and controllable and was already an above average ML starter. He was like the No. 1 overall prospect 2 years before the trade.

But somehow that wasn't enough for 1 year of Heyward? You do realize the Cards were unanimously lambasted around baseball for making that trade don't you?
 
sturg33 said:
I wish we would have let Wren do the trades of Heyward, Upton, kimbrel, Simmons, and Wood before firing him
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Aside from Wood and Simmons, I really don't see Wren getting anyone better. For all the big trades everyone praised Wren for, what did he really show for it? The Vazquez part 1, J-Up, and JJ were his best work. And even the J-Up trade is even debatable. Since the trade, the players we traded away have had more combined WAR than the players we received.

The rest of the big trades, while most were well received at the time, turned out to be big busts. We'd have been better off keeping Infante than trading for Uggla. The Pirates clearly won the McLouth trade. Tex trade part 2 was horrendous.
 
Carp said:
Ummm.... what?

Miller, at the time, was young and controllable and was already an above average ML starter. He was like the No. 1 overall prospect 2 years before the trade.

But somehow that wasn't enough for 1 year of Heyward? You do realize the Cards were unanimously lambasted around baseball for making that trade don't you?
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Miller was coming off of a half win season and 6K/9
 
Carp said:
Aside from Wood and Simmons, I really don't see Wren getting anyone better. For all the big trades everyone praised Wren for, what did he really show for it? The Vazquez part 1, J-Up, and JJ were his best work. And even the J-Up trade is even debatable. Since the trade, the players we traded away have had more combined WAR than the players we received.

The rest of the big trades, while most were well received at the time, turned out to be big busts. We'd have been better off keeping Infante than trading for Uggla. The Pirates clearly won the McLouth trade. Tex trade part 2 was horrendous.
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I think just about anyone could have done better than Wisler for Kimbrel, Newk for Simmons, and Wood for Olivera. Literally anybody.

And Justin Upton put up 10.5 WAR over the 3 years we traded for him, at substantial surplus value. That was an amazing trade

Coppy has done well drafting. But has sucked just about everywhere else
 
Carp said:
1.6 bWAR actually. And that was coming off a 3.0 WAR rookie season. You are delirious if you think anyone could have turned Heyward into anything better.
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Gotta love those 250 BABIP seasons that make pitchers look better than they actually are
 
Miller had made some adjustments and had a good second half the year before we traded for him. This is why we traded for him. Looking at the season as a whole doesnt tell the whole story. Good GMs trade for what a player will do not what they have done.
 
nsacpi said:
and by extension the brilliance of the decision to sign him for a grand total of 100K
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I wonder what's gonna end up being sexier, blowing the signing pool to sign Maitan for 4.25 mill or Wren getting Ronald for 400k. Hopefully they both are superstars.
 
sturg33 said:
I think just about anyone could have done better than Wisler for Kimbrel, Newk for Simmons, and Wood for Olivera. Literally anybody.

And Justin Upton put up 10.5 WAR over the 3 years we traded for him, at substantial surplus value. That was an amazing trade

Coppy has done well drafting. But has sucked just about everywhere else
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It was a now-for-later trade and in static terms, we got much more in terms of immediate value from Upton. But these were the kind of deals that got Wren in a bit of a fix because we gave up 5 bodies (4 of whom are still contributing at the major league level) for Upton and Chris Johnson (accepting Johnson probably required us to throw in one of Drury or Spruill). We were already lacking depth at the minor league level and this drained us of two good prospects (Delgado and Ahmed) and two that were a ways away. I have no complaints about the trade as Upton helped get us to the playoffs, but it's not like we got him for free.
 
thethe said:
I'm sure Wren did all the legwork to sign Acuna.
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you need to stay consistent.. You can't say Wren doesn't deserve that much credit for the Acuna signing.. and then turn around in another thread and praise Coppy for his international signings and June drafting. The GM role is the CEO of the acquisition team. and like all CEO's they are not down in the trenches doing the day to day work to make it successful. but they are putting people and process in place to make it successful. so ultimately, he deserves the credit and blame for what happened on his watch.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
you need to stay consistent.. You can't say Wren doesn't deserve that much credit for the Acuna signing.. and then turn around in another thread and praise Coppy for his international signings and June drafting. The GM role is the CEO of the acquisition team. and like all CEO's they are not down in the trenches doing the day to day work to make it successful. but they are putting people and process in place to make it successful. so ultimately, he deserves the credit and blame for what happened on his watch.
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Acuna + Albies
 
bravesfanMatt said:
you need to stay consistent.. You can't say Wren doesn't deserve that much credit for the Acuna signing.. and then turn around in another thread and praise Coppy for his international signings and June drafting. The GM role is the CEO of the acquisition team. and like all CEO's they are not down in the trenches doing the day to day work to make it successful. but they are putting people and process in place to make it successful. so ultimately, he deserves the credit and blame for what happened on his watch.
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I have continuously praised the scouting team that was brought back the minute Wren was fired. I have always directed the praise to the Braves scouts.

The international operations are a completely different animal. The Braves were always one of the more pronounced organizations overseas setting up academies for decades. That system was built by Snyder/JS/Cox and with the new structure of organizations the GM title is not what it used to be.
 
Theo Epstein is not the GM of the Cubs.

Do you think he isn't the primary decision maker?
 
Andrew Friedman is not the GM. Is he not the ultimate decision maker for the Dodgers.

This notion that the GM is this all powerful figure in an organization is a decades old idea.
 
thethe said:
I'm sure Wren did all the legwork to sign Acuna.
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I think we need to be even-handed here. Wren didn't personally conduct the draft either. But he empowered the people who did. Similarly he empowered Johnny Almaraz and his team of international scouts to sign guys like Acuna and Albies. In both cases, he should get some of the blame and credit for what the people he empowered did.

Btw while we are on the topic of being even-handed, I'm fine with saying Wren drove away good people like Roy Clark. But we should also give the current front-office a demerit based upon the fact that Almaraz left after they took over.
 
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